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Post by acousticmirror on Mar 2, 2013 14:08:15 GMT -5
I've been noticing more and more chocolate companies claiming to make raw chocolate, that never in the process goes above 110 degrees. I make chocolate from the bean at home and have never successfully kept temperatures below 140. Can you tell me how they might be doing it? I'm interested in making it but just can't figure out how, short of putting the Santha in a walk-in cooler...
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Post by Brad on Apr 17, 2013 3:19:19 GMT -5
Why would you want to make raw chocolate? It's dangerous due to pathogen cross contamination, tastes like crap (nothing like chocolate), and is STILL not a healthy food.
Eating raw chocolate is about as pleasant as sticking a fork in the side of your head...
You're better off balancing your life with a better diet, and smaller portions of GOOD chocolate.
Brad
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Post by olomazz on May 1, 2013 11:15:14 GMT -5
hi,
Pacari 70% RAW was awarded "best chocolate" this year... How RAW is it, I can't tell...
Acousticmirror, I don't have an answer but I wonder if they might be playing with the pressure conditions in order to keep temperature low enough.
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Post by Brad on May 1, 2013 16:35:31 GMT -5
Voted "Best Chocolate" by who? Certanly none of MY customers!
How raw is it? That's easy. If it tastes like crap and nothing like chocolate it's raw. If it tastes like chocolate, call them up and call them big fat liars. Here's why:
Bread doesn't taste like toast until it's toasted and then can never be called "just bread" again.
Not following me? Here's another:
Coffee beans don't taste like coffee until they have been roasted. Have you ever tasted raw coffee? Yuck.
Cocoa beans are no different. The process that converts the terrible tasting, bitter, acidic, yucky, cocoa bean to a chocolate flavour is called a Maillard reaction. It is this Maillard reaction that causes bread to taste like toast, and coffee beans to taste like coffee. It is caused by HEAT well in excess of 165 degrees Farenheit. The chocolate taste caused by the maillard reaction does not EVER lie, but marketing people DO.
I'm not even going to hop on the "Raw cocoa beans can kill you" rant.
It's BS until proven otherwise, and the company will NEVER prove it to you. Simply put, they can't.
Cheers
Brad
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Post by anish on May 2, 2013 3:56:14 GMT -5
I too support BRAD and MAILLARD.
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Post by littleblue on Jun 3, 2013 10:46:29 GMT -5
As someone who makes raw chocolate that actually tastes amazing, I have to disagree, sorry. My beans do get roasted, but the nibs, powder and butter I get are still certified as raw. So long as I don't then heat these products above 110º, I can still call it raw. Because of that I cannot put it in the melangeur, which as you Santha users know takes it over 112º. What I do is melt my cacao butter in the microwave until it's almost completely liquid (allowed), then stir in my agave and powder with a hand blender as quickly as I can and pour it into the moulds. The powdery feel is minimal at the ratios involved in my recipe, and the result is a massive head rush of chocolate hit, nothing like normal chocolate in the UK and right up there with 85% or higher bars - ours works out at 78%.
BUT - and here's the big cop out - a lot of people making raw chocolate don't think you can make chocolate that way, it was something we discovered by falling into the recipe after rejecting so many others. Raw chocolate can be made with flour, nuts or even coconut oil in them. These, to me, are not raw chocolate, and you're right - they taste disgusting!
Because of cost issues and allergy problems as well as health problems that we were addressing in our recipes we couldn't use nuts or coconut oil anyway, they raise our production costs which we then have to pass on to our customers. Also, we're using the finest Criollo you can get apart from Porcellana - why the hell would we want to dilute that with cashews or other crud?
I'm in it for the purest chocolate I can get/make, not because I want greasy peanut butter or coconut flavoured rubbish, which is what a lot of people make. I live in the middle of a town which has wall to wall vegan/health nuts, and their needs need to be met as well, and if they want raw, since I have made a raw that is amazingly good, I'm happy to sell it. It's not smooth, but it is amazing. Oh, and if you supply your address I'll send you some of our tiny tasting bars to prove it!
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Post by Brad on Jun 3, 2013 18:13:51 GMT -5
Littleblue:
Nibs, powder and butter are certified as raw? Certified by who?
Do your homework and you will find that your cocoa butter and cocoa powder are processed in a fashion that takes them well above the 120 degree threshold.
You obviously didn't read my last post. If it tastes like chocolate, I hate to tell you, but it's been heated above 165 degrees F.
It's easy fool a lot of stupid / gullible people, but chemistry can't be fooled.
Brad
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Post by littleblue on Jun 4, 2013 5:37:53 GMT -5
I think that's pretty much how the UK labelling peeps view it, completely raw is impossible unless you pick the beans yourself, and they don't recommend that as you can kill yourself with raw beans. The definition over here is very loose right now, because of the issues of production at the start of the process, but so long as what is sent to me is stated as raw, I'm allowed to say it's raw. I know it has a cooler roast, at a lower temperature for a longer time, same with the cacao pressing, longer and cooler, but I checked all over, and it's really hard to get unfermented beans, so you can't do the process yourself unless you're lucky enough to live in Peru, so you have to trust the people who send you the stuff. Oh, and in the UK it's 110º, not 120º, so I suspect the chances of anything fermenting under banana leaves on a jungle floor producing less than 110º are pretty much zero anyway.
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Post by littleblue on Jun 4, 2013 5:40:51 GMT -5
Oh, and certified by the producers as raw - I don't deal with a big company, I deal direct with the farmers.
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Post by feedme on Jun 4, 2013 6:56:41 GMT -5
you hate it or love it.... I just feel safe knowing that I killed the Salmonella in my chocolate by roasting it over 75 degrees.
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Post by Brad on Jun 4, 2013 15:59:22 GMT -5
So then Littleblue, let me see if I get this right: In one post you state, and I quote: "So long as I don't then heat these products above 110º, I can still call it raw." Then you go on to say in another post "completely raw is impossible unless you pick the beans yourself....but so long as what is sent to me is stated as raw, I'm allowed to say it's raw" and THEN in the same post you state that the beans have a "cooler roast". Are you kidding me?  ? It's lying, hypocritical morons like YOU who muddy the waters for people who are legitimately trying to market their wares!!! YES I CALLED YOU A LIAR AND A HYPOCRITE AND A MORON. You claim your product is raw and advertise it as such, and then admit that most of your product is roasted (albeit at a lower temperature so that makes it ok. pffft! Idiot.) I hope John sees this and blacklists you. YOU ARE THE POSTERCHILD FOR THE PROBLEMS CONSUMERS ARE HAVING WITH MARKETING TERMS. Your Post Paraphrased: "...if I'm told something, that means I'm allowed to call my stuff that even though I didn't verify it, and I'll further validate my stupidity by trying to keep my products within the parameters, even though I know the stuff I buy really isn't what it's claimed to be. At least I'll look good while lying to my customers."You are a moron. Sincerely. Brad |
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Post by feedme on Jun 5, 2013 5:08:01 GMT -5
I hope the beans are Lavado!...
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Post by Freddo on Jun 5, 2013 17:05:23 GMT -5
Want to get really angry???
Pana chocolate in Australia makes this claim....
why choose raw?
Cacao processed at high temperatures (as is common in most chocolate) loses its nutrient value and when ingested can cause a build up of acid in the body. Pana Chocolate is prepared using consistently low temperature to produce a non- acidic chocolate that retains its naturally occurring nutrients and antioxidants.
By choosing raw chocolate you are getting all of the benfits of the cacao bean – the most antioxidant rich food source known.
And this is how they "make" their chocolate.....
Cacao grown in organic environment
Cacao pods harvested
The cacao gets processed into the key components for the chocolate - cacao solids, cacao butter and cacao powder
Ingredients are packaged and stored
Raw ingredients are dispatched to Australia …
… where they arrive at the Pana Chocolate kitchen
all taken from their website
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Post by feedme on Jun 6, 2013 3:02:31 GMT -5
oh the Propaganda!!!
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Post by Little Blue on Jun 6, 2013 4:19:23 GMT -5
LOL - Brad, make your mind up! Either raw chocolate is or isn't a precise term - and as I pointed out, right now, with UK labelling, it isn't. And either it's vile and I don't want to eat it or it's wonderful and I should. You appear to be not only angry, but wanting the best of both worlds.
I have a product that conforms to the UK labelling laws, that for the vast majority of vegans and raw food consumers in the UK is exactly that - raw. I am providing not only what they want, but unlike some I take the trouble of going to a small producer who I can communicate with directly, and who has taken the trouble to get the correct certification for organic and the South American version of fairtrade. You may think of me as you wish, but I am 1) within the law, 2) trying to do the right thing, 3) not just slamming people for daring to trade legally.
Sorry if that upsets you, but at least I'm *trying*, unlike so many others. My cacao butter is pressed using hand turned machinery, over a much longer time, keeping the temperature down, my nibs are roasted for longer at a lower temperature, my cacao powder is ground as slowly and cooly as possible. There are specific laws governing the importing of cacao products in the UK that state we cannot serve dangerous produce to our customers, and that completely raw chocolate beans is one of them. It's on a par with selling you a bag of cake batter and calling it a cake - it is inedible in that form and it is dangerous.
What I make is legally, and within the terms of the description, using what is currently available, raw. More so than many other raw producers.
If you don't like that, change the legislation in the EU, don't rant at me for being concerned enough for my customers that I don't want to kill them off with illegal imports or that I don't want to end up in jail.
You can't just go around libelling people because you don't like what they say, there are repercussions for such actions.
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