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Post by nomorenicksleft on Mar 25, 2008 22:00:26 GMT -5
I bought a pod from a nursery in Puerto Rico. I got about 50 seeds out of it, which I think I planted 48 of them. Tried to eat the remaining two seeds... pretty horrible (and purple! expected chocolate brown...). Now, several weeks later, all look as if they're germinating.
Supposing I don't kill them as I've killed other plants in the past, it will be years before they get big enough to fruit, and they may never. But supposing they do, is there anything a person can even do with the pods/beans? I intend to keep 2-4 plants, and wouldn't expect more than a dozen pods at once and possibly fewer than that. If the pods are the size I got, this might amount to a gallon or so of beans.
Granted, I'm asking a little early... but if/when that day comes, do I just toss them in the compost pile? The fermentation process looks doable, what little I know of it, but the processing that dried/fermented beans go through looks like something that can only be done on an industrial scale! Surely they had chocolate before common chocolat company often boycotted for it's other products and marketing invented big machines... but what the sites I've read say about it make it sound as if you need a big 20 ton press to seperate the cocoa butter and such from the cocoa powder.
Can anyone recommend any reading (beyond this site)?
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Post by jamescary on Apr 11, 2008 15:28:55 GMT -5
Hi nomorenicksleft, From what I know (still learning myself), you're going to have a couple years before your trees bear fruit. So, luckily you're in no rush and you'll have plenty of time to get some answers. The Chocolate Alchemy site is a great resource for learning the process of turning the cacao beans into chocolate (note: no 20 ton press needed ) To learn what happens starting from the tree, it is explained simply with a lot of pictures in the book, The New Taste of Chocolate. When you are ready to get down and dirty, you can find more details in books by Arthur Knapp (these are rather old but you should be able to find floating around the internet) and by Steve Beckett. Best of luck!
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jim
Neophyte
Posts: 7
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Post by jim on Apr 14, 2008 20:18:58 GMT -5
All,
A better way to grow cocoa beans, and, actually, the way the professional plantations often do it, is not by planting cacao seeds. Instead, it is by planting stems from a cacao tree taken from the leafing branches in the standard ways described for most plants in any orchard or horticultural manual. Doing it this way provides the benefits of a bush with a shallow root system better suited to a greenhouse environment and it also speeds up the production by a year or two. (Some varieties can produce in 18 months when planted this way.) If you are in a cacao growing area such a Puerto Rico or Mexico, you can usually buy such plantable branches from nursursies that produce them in large quantities for farmers.
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Post by nomorenicksleft on Apr 15, 2008 15:24:44 GMT -5
Thanks Jim. That's not really an option for me at the moment... growing them slow is better, I don't have a greenhouse (yet). I'm hoping that being near large south-facing windows will make do, supposedly they like shade anyway. I'm in Georgia at the moment, so no nurseries close by that will have any. Though, if they're shippable that way, I will check into get some here later. I eventually want more than one variety.
And thanks to you too, jamescary. I'm definitely putting those on my list of books to find.
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Post by seneca on Apr 15, 2008 16:18:44 GMT -5
Grafting is preferred for more than just practical reasons...keep in mind that with seed planting every seed represents a unique cross, so that every seed from a single pod will result in a genetically unique tree.
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Post by nomorenicksleft on Apr 16, 2008 19:00:44 GMT -5
Is this more like apples or potatoes, where non-clone plants might not even have edible fruit?
I had assumed that as far as the chocolate was concerned, one plant is as good as another, is this not the case? I had assumed that any grades of chocolate beans had more to do with each bean fermenting more or less than another or what have you.
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Post by seneca on Apr 16, 2008 19:32:34 GMT -5
It is similar to apples in some senses, but not quite as radical.
It definitely would not be fair to say that one tree is as good as another...each particular varietal will engage with its environment in totally unique ways that will dramatically impact the end result. Finding that optimal interaction is at the heart of the matter when planting a new crop.
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Post by mgilbert on May 18, 2008 21:17:02 GMT -5
Aloha from Maui I found some pods from a tree growing at the Grand Wailea Hotel. I took the seeds germinated them and planted them Voilla three years later they are all full of Pods. Some of the trees I clipped the top keep them small. It worked well and they area all loaded up. So seeds can work. My pods are bright red and go to a orange yellow color. Now I have to decide what to do with all those seeds. I grow coffee and that is as simple as ABC bot this cocoa seems really daunting. But I agree there has to be some easier ways with out all the machines
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Post by joyojoy on May 21, 2008 15:18:04 GMT -5
Aloha from Maui Now I have to decide what to do with all those seeds. I grow coffee and that is as simple as ABC bot this cocoa seems really daunting. But I agree there has to be some easier ways with out all the machines Oooh! Please send some seeds my way! I'm moving to the California, and the climate there should be pretty good for some theobroma trees. Your comment about chocolate machines made me think of the movie Chocolat , which I just watched again a couple of weeks ago... It was the first time I had watched it since I started making chocolate myself. I couldn't help but wonder how that woman managed to make so many incredible chocolates so quickly without any machinery -- and how in the world did she get all of those cocoa beans shipped to that tiny little village in provincial Italy (or France, or wherever it was)? I still enjoyed Johnny Depp though...
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Post by nomorenicksleft on May 24, 2008 0:56:15 GMT -5
joyojoy,
Email me at john.m.oyler at gmail. I will send my postal address, and if you send me a SASE I will send you a seed or two. I'm getting ready to break open a new pod that I bought from Montoso recently, and will have more than I will need. You'll need to plant them immediately, but they are easy enough to grow (and I can give tips from where I went wrong the first time).
I do not know that you can ever hope to get them to fruit... it is supposedly challenging for those not in the tropics. But to get them to grow into a houseplant seems doable. Just let me know if you want any. And actually, anyone here is welcome to a couple of seeds, I should have plenty to go around (just let me know that you're someone other than joyojoy).
Thanks all for all the helpful advice everyone, John O.
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Post by seneca on May 24, 2008 12:05:23 GMT -5
Growing cacao indoors in N. America is very very unlikely to result in anything other than occasional flowering. You might get a friendly houseplant, but I wouldn't be too hopeful about more than that...
Even in Florida, where minimum temps are basically met and there's plenty of humidity, pod set is extremely uncommon.
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Post by nomorenicksleft on May 25, 2008 1:45:14 GMT -5
As I said myself. I am under no illusion that it will be anything less than extremely challenging. Nor do I say anything that would confuse someone else... I'm just offering some seeds for the price of the postage.
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Post by nomorenicksleft on Jun 5, 2008 1:14:57 GMT -5
Just in case anyone is curious... these are my (roughly) 3 month old plants. They don't look like much yet. Hopefully that will change in a few years.
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