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Post by martin0642 on Nov 13, 2015 8:55:58 GMT -5
Hi all - so I've been grappling with this question for a while but failed to find decent answers. Every post/article on tempering states that the three things required for tempering are Time, Temperature and Movement. Whilst the temperature curve is usually well explained; what ISN'T explained is how time and motion affect the final result. With regard to time - it *seems* as though the crucial thing is getting the temperature curve down from the top end as quickly as possible. With regard to motion - it appears to be the almost universal advice of stir stir stir. However - nobody really explains what it is about time that matters. How much time? WHat happens in that time? WHat happens if you take too much or too little time? With regard to motion - whilst the universal advice is stirring like your life depends on it - there is some advice that says crystals form better when left alone (including what appears to be that advice by the alchemist himself) and when using MyCryo - Callebaut's own advice is to leave the chocolate to cool at room temperature until it reaches 34c before adding MyCryo and then stirring down to 31/32c to work with it. Which seems to contradict the stirring advice. I'm just trying to understand what contribution each element makes and how to ensure optimal results. I may also be overthinking it....
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Post by Sebastian on Nov 13, 2015 16:37:15 GMT -5
I'm afraid w/o more advanced equipment, you'll not be able to answer that question definitively, and the answer will be the far more disappointing "you stir until it's ready" that you probably already know.
The reason time, temperature, and motion are important are they're helping to develop a certain structure of crystal (crystals, actually). How much time, temperature, and motion depends on a great many things. Generally s peaking, what goes wrong is you end up with either too many, too few, or the wrong kind of crystal mix - which is collectively called 'being out of temper'. As you can imagine, there's all sorts of ways you can be 'out of temper' as well as 'in temper' - but without expensive equipment, you'll not exactly know....
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Post by martin0642 on Nov 15, 2015 19:00:53 GMT -5
Thank you for taking the time to reply I appreciate that these are variables...and therefore variable..... but someone at some point worked out that these are the three key things that affect temper - so presumably there is an answer that defines why they affect it. I appreciate that precisely *how* that happens may change within a given scenario; but why surely would not? I found a useful pdf (by Cargill i think) that explained that time is needed for the crystals to form (which obviously makes sense) and that agitation is necessary to evenly distribute the crystals as (apparently) we're only looking for 2-4% of the cocoa butter to be in stable form - that seems low to me so I assume it progresses from there to being predominantly beta crystals. So I get the agitation bit - we're distributing crystals evenly. I get the temperature curve, that's well explained in many places. I still don't get the time aspect. Advice seems to be to cool the chocolate quickly from the upper limit to the lower limit before bringing it up to working temperature. I understand that that time period will fluctuate given a variety of variables - what I don't get...is what people actually *mean* when they say time is important. EVeryone says it but do they mean sufficient time for crystals to grow (which..if it's highly variable isn't particularly useful to try and bear in mind) or are they referring to controlling time period - ie short for bringing down from upper to lower limits. I appreciate I may be massively overthinking this but, to put it in perspective...I used to be a chef so understanding why my foodstuffs do what they do was crucial - I also have another hobby of molecular gastronomy..which tends to be a bit OCD
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Post by Thomas on Nov 15, 2015 20:12:19 GMT -5
The book, 'The Science of Chocolate' by Stephen Beckett, has an excellent chapter on crystallizing the fat in chocolate. It also discusses the effect of shearing (i.e. Motion) during the formation of crystals.
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Post by martin0642 on Nov 16, 2015 8:38:21 GMT -5
The book, 'The Science of Chocolate' by Stephen Beckett, has an excellent chapter on crystallizing the fat in chocolate. It also discusses the effect of shearing (i.e. Motion) during the formation of crystals. Awesome - thank you! I'll add that to the list..I just bought Greweling's book...admittedly much cheaper than full price but still..ouch! Thank you for the recommendation
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Post by Sebastian on Nov 16, 2015 17:54:53 GMT -5
It's all actually quite controllable - if you have the equipment to measure it. I suspect i'm rather familiar with what you've read in temper chocolate actually has all sorts of crystals. many different types. Those types form over a range of temperatures and take time to form (they don't form immediately). You'll have multiple types at a given time. Even after you're in temper, have demoulded, wrapped and shipped your bars - they're still changing crystal types and quantities. Think of it like cooking an egg (i'm sure this analogy breaks down quite quickly, but i'm tired). Once you've broken the egg and placed it on the hot stove, it's not immediately done. Some of it's done after 10 seconds, but after 15 seconds more of it will be done. You'll still have liquid (under tempered) portions of the egg, and solid portions (tempered) of the egg, and if you leave it there long enough you'll have very hard (over tempered) portions of the egg. All three can exist at the same time. If you have all liquid egg, you're not going to be happy, and it takes a good deal of practice to get the egg to be all solid w/o overcooking it. Put some bacon in it, and now you're talkin'.... (i may have just broken the analogy beyond repair. and now i want bacon)
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Post by martin0642 on Nov 16, 2015 18:31:40 GMT -5
It's all actually quite controllable - if you have the equipment to measure it. I suspect i'm rather familiar with what you've read in temper chocolate actually has all sorts of crystals. many different types. Those types form over a range of temperatures and take time to form (they don't form immediately). You'll have multiple types at a given time. Even after you're in temper, have demoulded, wrapped and shipped your bars - they're still changing crystal types and quantities. Think of it like cooking an egg (i'm sure this analogy breaks down quite quickly, but i'm tired). Once you've broken the egg and placed it on the hot stove, it's not immediately done. Some of it's done after 10 seconds, but after 15 seconds more of it will be done. You'll still have liquid (under tempered) portions of the egg, and solid portions (tempered) of the egg, and if you leave it there long enough you'll have very hard (over tempered) portions of the egg. All three can exist at the same time. If you have all liquid egg, you're not going to be happy, and it takes a good deal of practice to get the egg to be all solid w/o overcooking it. Put some bacon in it, and now you're talkin'.... (i may have just broken the analogy beyond repair. and now i want bacon) HAHA!!! Excellent analogy - and thank you
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