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Post by Chocolate Panda on Jun 27, 2015 8:16:46 GMT -5
Dear chocolate guys, First, thanks for all the wonderful information all over this website and forum. It helped a lot! We are founding a small scale chocolate factory. Our goal is to be able to produce 2000 chocolate bar (100g each) every week. We are working with dark, milk and white chocolate (all vegan . We are not going all the way bean to bar, but starting from pre-maid cocoa mass and butter - meaning we don't need any roasting and winnowing equipment, and refining is much easier. Until now, we were using only the premier wet grinder in order to refine together the cocoa, sugar and "better than milk" powder, and did hand tempering, molding, melting etc. We were able to get in 8-12 hours 2-3K of completely smooth chocolate. We can invest 8000-12000$ in buying the equipment that will enable us this production. The question is - what should we buy? We hope to get as much automation as we can This is what we thought, but we would love you comments and advice: 3 X Spectra 11 (one for each color) that can refine about 8K a batch each (remember we are not using nibs so it should be easier and faster, but if you think its too much please tell us:) ) X 2 batch 5 days a week: 240K a week, 2100$ (we live outside the US). Other alternatives: 2 X spectra 20 = 16k each batch = 320k a week, but more expensive: 5200$. Or the Spectra 40 (same as two spectra 20 I guess): 3900$. What is the best option for us? What should we choose? Our tendency is for the first option, that allow us to create 3 flavors at the same time, and enable a sort of backup mechanism if something fail. Tempering machine: Should we get 2-3 ACMC (~2400$)? Or 1 revolution Delta (2200$)? What else would make our life easier? A dispenser\skimmer for the tempering machine? A vibrating table for molding? A melter to pre-melt the cocoa butter and mass before putting in the spectra? Something else we didn't think about? Thanks in advance for your time and advice, Daniel & Elya
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Post by dublinguy on Jun 29, 2015 9:43:32 GMT -5
I can speak about my recently acquired Spectra 11 - I don't think you can do 8 kilos at once in the Spectra 11, and I think John recommends max 9 pounds, so a little over 4 kilos.
If you pre-powder the sugar and the milk substitute (for half a kilo, a $40 mixer/blender would do the job in 3-4 minutes), you could technically reduce your processing time by 2-4 hours. It would be challenging to run 3 batches a day per machine though ...
I'm only doing small batches here and hand tempering as well, but given the quantity you're looking to produce (200 kilos a week, so tempering about 30 kilos a day), invest in a quality tempering machine (don't just look at the output), or this will become rapidly a bottleneck. With three different types of chocolates, you will probably have slight differences in the settings due to differences in the cristallization and holding temperatures (lower for milk, higher for dark), so might be better off with 3 separate tempering machines especialy if you want to make the 3 flavors at once.
You will definitely need one or multiple melters!
If you're going to hand mold, this could also become quickly a bottleneck. A vibrating table can help, but what will also matter is the amount of moulds you have at your disposal, how quickly you can get the chocolate to set without ruining the tempering, and how you intend to store the bars, before wrapping them (if you intend to do so).
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Post by dublinguy on Jun 29, 2015 9:56:07 GMT -5
Out of curiosity, where did you find pricing for the ACMC? I see it listed at $895 for 110V or $995 for 230V on their website
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Post by danikiser on Jul 28, 2015 16:49:05 GMT -5
I highly recommend investing in an EZtemper machine for $1000. Those tempering machines you mention aren't great and to upgrade you'd need to invest 5-10k.
The EZtemper seeds the cocoa butter and has been amazing for me. I take the mass out of the mélanger into a bowl and wait it for it to cool down. Then you add the seed, stir really well and pour into molds. It's so easy.
You can find a dental vibrator really cheap on eBay, it'll fit one mold at a time, they are like $80.
Also, look up the threads on the Lakshmi machines, the are running $1400 shipped for a 20liter machine. There some guys in Europe who've written good things about them.
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Post by danikiser on Jul 28, 2015 16:49:47 GMT -5
And as for you original question, better to have more than one machine to cover you if one breaks.
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Post by kevin on Jul 29, 2015 12:09:00 GMT -5
Hi Danikiser, I just want to make sure I understand you correctly about the EZtemper.
Ben says it is an incubator.
So you temper the cocoa butter silk and just add it to the mass that you take right out of the melange after the mass cools and start stirring well.
Do you cool the mass to a certain temperature before adding the cocoa butter silk? How long do you usually stir for?
Do you have a separate tempering machine or do you only use the EZtemper?
Thank you.
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gap
Apprentice
Posts: 390
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Post by gap on Jul 29, 2015 16:34:37 GMT -5
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Post by Ben on Jul 30, 2015 7:16:38 GMT -5
I think the EZTemper would work well in combination with another tempering machine. For example, you could melt and then cool 15 lbs of chocolate in a Revolation x3210 or Delta (with holey baffle) to 93F, add the silk and be done. The machine would handle cooling and maintaining temp, as well as stirring.
Side note: While I haven't used the ACMC tempering machine, and so can't comment on it, I'd disagree with danikiser's comment above about the quality of the larger chocovision machines. I used an x3210 as my only tempering machine for a couple years and found it to be very reliable.
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Post by kevin on Jul 30, 2015 10:59:09 GMT -5
Thank you, Gap.
Ben, I think what you are saying makes a lot of sense. I would still like to see if Danikiser only uses the EZtemper which from my reading of posts on this site would be a first.
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gap
Apprentice
Posts: 390
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Post by gap on Jul 30, 2015 16:35:56 GMT -5
Kevin - it would be a first, but the EZTemper was only released a few months ago
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Post by Ben on Aug 3, 2015 7:39:01 GMT -5
Kevin: I guess I'm not sure what you mean. In Danikiser's earlier comment, she mentions that she just adds the silk to the chocolate mass that she removed from the melanger, stirs and molds. So, no tempering machine in that process.
My comment was just that the combination of the EZTemper and a tempering machine (to control temp and stir) would be very convenient.
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Post by kevin on Aug 3, 2015 11:50:46 GMT -5
Hi Ben, I do not know if I know what I mean either. :-)
It looks like Danikiser goes without a tempering machine. I would like to know what her bars look like to see if they are shiny or not and what kind of melt they have. If I understand you correctly, having a tempering machine is easier because you do not have to stir manually, the tempering machine does that for you.
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Post by Ben on Aug 3, 2015 12:17:40 GMT -5
I've never seen Danikiser's bars, but it is definitely possible to get shiny bars with a good melt when tempering without a machine. Lots and lots of people do it every day. A tempering machine can just make the process easier, by stirring for you and controlling/maintaining the temperature at a set point, etc.
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Post by danikiser on Sept 2, 2015 20:48:58 GMT -5
Sorry for the silence, I didn't even know there was a while discussion going on about me! Guess I should sign up for notifications.
Anyways, I still live the EZtemper. I pull the chocolate out of the mélanger, put it in a bowl and wait for it to cool down to 32 degrees Celsius. When it's there I add the seed and stir really well and then stir some more. I then pour into molds. They come out beautiful and shiny and snappy.
I don't use a tempering machine and don't need one.
Really it's amazing how easy it is with the EZtemper. I didn't believe the hype before I bought it, but was desperate for something to simplify things.
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Post by quinnchocolate on Nov 8, 2015 11:03:09 GMT -5
Hi everybody and thanks for all of your insightful comments. I've been looking at the EZtemper for a little while now. I have the X3210, but was thinking about selling it for a melter and perhaps an EZtemper. Mainly I wanted to produce some candy bars and dipped pralines/ganache. I have a couple of questions and was hoping for some helpful advice from any and all of you.
1. If using an EZtemper, would any of you recommend a melter, such as a Mol d'Art over a tempering machine for the kind of work I described? Danikiser, you mentioned that you don't use a tempering machine. Do you use a melter with your EZtemper.
2. The EZ temper uses a precise temperature control factory set at 33.6C, to melt cocoa butter and form beta V crystals, correct? In theory, could you take an immersion circulator and heat a water bath at 33.6C, and place a small hotel pan full of cocoa butter and achieve the same results (similar to a bain marie)? What are your thoughts?
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