gap
Apprentice
Posts: 390
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Post by gap on May 26, 2013 1:35:10 GMT -5
Hi All,
I've been experimenting with chocolate making for ~9 months now. I have a Premier grinder but am working with someone who uses a Santha Spectra.
We just did a side by side comparison on making a batch of chocolate. One large roast, split in two. Same weight of nibs, cocoa butter and sugar all added at the same time to both machines. The machines sat side by side in the same room and were on at the same time.
We are currently at the 30 hour mark and the resulting liquid chocolate (still grinding) tastes DIFFERENT!! Not that surprising, we thought it would, but has anyone done any work on this?
The Santha chocolate seemed to have a better mouthfeel and faster melt than the Premier. But the Premier chocolate seemed to carry more flavour from the beans. I wouldn't say one chocolate was better than the other - they were just different. I am working with a well respected pastry chef who specialises in chocolate and he was just as convinced with the differences.
As far as I know, the physical differences in the machines are the Santha is a 2L machine and the Premier 1.5L, so the Santha has larger rollers (heavier?) and bowl size. From memory, the Premier runs at ~1500rpm and the Santha at ~1000rpm. Due to the design having the motor under the bowl, the Premier tends to run "hotter" than the Santha.
Has anyone else encountered this difference in tastes between different machines? Any idea which variable is causing which difference - or is it an interaction of all of them?
I will report back as we finish this batch and let the chocolate set up.
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Post by Sebastian on May 26, 2013 6:06:24 GMT -5
absolutely there will be differences, depending on how you grind, refine, conch, etc. even if you use the same equipment, but operate/configure it differently, there will be differences. how does the moisture escape/when does it? how about volatile acidity? is it a close or open system? what are the temperatures? how about the particle size distribution or the shape of the particles? lots and lots of variables you can certainly design experiements to identify which variable is having what effect (i happen to know a guy). that's the beauty of this - so many things to explore
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Post by kevin on May 26, 2013 8:35:43 GMT -5
Cool experiment, Gap.
I bought the Premier because I heard good things about it and because I did not care for some chocolate I tasted at shows that had a Santha demonstration.
I just started making chocolate in the last couple months. What I have made so far in the Premier is pretty good.
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Post by feedme on May 26, 2013 17:18:24 GMT -5
I'm guessing.... if you placed the same amount of chocolate in both machines and one is a 2kg and the other is a 1.5kg and you placed a 1kg in each?, then the santha would remove more volatile/acidity faster as its a bigger machine with more room to conch.
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gap
Apprentice
Posts: 390
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Post by gap on May 26, 2013 18:33:31 GMT -5
Thanks All.
And yes Sebastian - many things to explore. Our biggest issue at the moment is trying to find a parcel of beans to allow consistency from that side so we can see the differences we get when we alter other variables. We've got a few more machines on the way, so hopefully we'll be able to start running 4-5 batches at a time going forward and make slight changes in each batch and see the impact. I have a feeling I know the "guy" you're referring to in your post but I also have a feeling our budget needs to get a bit larger before we can get him out :-)
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Post by feedme on May 26, 2013 19:02:20 GMT -5
gap you should go have a look at monsieurtruffechocolate.com they have just started refining chocolate in Melbourne too. They have a awesome setup!!!
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gap
Apprentice
Posts: 390
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Post by gap on May 27, 2013 2:37:42 GMT -5
Thanks feedme. I know Monsieur Truffe but they aren't selling any bean to bar at this stage. I'm hoping they will start soon though - and I agree, they have a great looking setup
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Post by feedme on May 28, 2013 1:49:44 GMT -5
yeh!. we were trying to steal one of their big old conchs as they have 2 lol but no luck.... I'm hoping my business partner brings me back one of their sample batches >.<
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Post by Freddo on May 31, 2013 4:22:48 GMT -5
I have three small 2L machines now and I have developed a huge bias towards the Ultra Grind+. My machines are one Premier Wonder grinder, one Premier Tilting Grinder and the Ultra (with the conical stones). The Ultra knocks the others dead with grind times and in fact, yesterday I was puttting warmed nibs into both (warmed) machines simultaneously and the Ultra had accepted all the nibs and had them into a free flowing paste before the Premier had even accepted all the nibs. And I prefer the flavour of the Ultra, the chocolate is creamier.
So IMO yes the machine design affects the flavor.
My question is how different does the two roller type refiner compare to the universal refiner/conche for flavor ? Anyone?
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Post by lilypa on Jun 1, 2013 16:08:51 GMT -5
Freddo,
You mentioned the chocolate in the Ultra was creamier than the Premier. Could that simply be that the Premier would take longer to obtain the same level of creaminess as the Ultra (i.e. particle size reduction)?
I only have a Santha, so I'm not biased either way in regards to an Ultra vs. a Premier.
Dave
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Post by Freddo on Jun 7, 2013 16:38:20 GMT -5
Yes possibly. Its a purely subjective statement, not based on any testing. I just prefer the Ultra. It also grinds about 8-10 degrees C higher , typically around 52C which may speed the conching compared to the Premier.
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gap
Apprentice
Posts: 390
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Post by gap on Jun 7, 2013 17:12:21 GMT -5
Having now tasted both chocolates, I can say they were different. The difference in mouthfeel had closed a fair bit by the time it was moulded after 40 hours but there is was definately a difference in taste. From one experiment it is hard to say though - the Premier has a hole in the lid around the shaft and Santha doesn't - we left both lids on for most of the experiment so maybe that was the reason rather than the grinders. Anyway, bears further investigation.
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Post by littleblue on Jul 1, 2013 10:05:21 GMT -5
This is really interesting - having found it nigh on impossible to get my 9 litre Santha clean enough for white chocolate I just ordered a 2 litre Butterfly which appears to be from the same people. This is a 3 conical stone grinder type instead of 2 round wheels, and I'm going to be very interested to see the difference in the two machines!
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