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Post by lilypa on Sept 16, 2012 14:29:56 GMT -5
Hey All,
I have some unroasted beans that have cracks and/or exposed nib. Do folks usually remove these during sorting prior to roasting?
I already understand why germinated beans should be removed (beans with a hole in the top). I'm more curious about unroasted beans that have a cracked husk and/or are missing part of the husk such that exposed nib is showing.
Here's another way to ask it. Should all unroasted beans with cracks be throw away prior to roasting?
Thanks a bunch for ANY response I get!! Dave
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Post by lilypa on Sept 20, 2012 19:01:20 GMT -5
Hey All,
I really would like an answer to this question. Even a simple yes or no answer would suffice. I've scoured the forum and looked at as many related threads as well as looking elsewhere online (Chocolate Life, etc). From what I can infer (as I couldn't find any explicit answers), cracked beans are thrown out during sorting because molds can access the nib and spoil the flavor. Is this a correct assumption?
Part of the reason I ask is because I recently purchased two small batches of beans (3 lbs and 2 lbs from John) of different origins. (Obviously, I just a fledgling home chocolate maker...70% and up, mostly just beans and sugar.) Origin A (3 lbs; technically I received 48.65 oz...thanks John!) had very loose husks and many of them were lightly to heavily cracked and/or germinated. After sorting out all the bad beans (any sort of cracks, holes, or exposed nib) I was left with 41.45 oz of good beans (14.8% loss). Yet, after sorting Origin B the same way (2 lbs; technically received 32.80 oz...thanks again John!!) I ended up with 31.85 oz of good beans (2.9% loss).
I guess I was hoping that I could salvage some minimally cracked Origin A beans for use in my chocolate as that seems like an awful lot of "loss". That why I was wondering if pretty much any sort of cracking on the beans is ground from automatic dismissal on the grounds of potential flavor spoilage?
Now I'm thinking two thoughts...a) the processing of the Origin B beans has better quality control than that of Origin A and b) perhaps I received Origin A beans that were scooped from the bottom of the bag. I'm really inclined to lean towards thought "a)" as these beans just looked and felt superior. They even had a much better smell upon opening the zip-locked bags.
Perhaps I answered my own question...throw out any and all beans with cracks (also holes, exposed nibs, and broken beans) as most likely their flavor has been ruined. However, if any of you would still like to give me a definitive answer to this that would be great. Like I said, no where on this forum was my question explicitly answered in previous threads.
Cheers All, Dave
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Post by Sebastian on Sept 20, 2012 19:20:24 GMT -5
Beans with cracked shell will be just fine.
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Post by lilypa on Sept 21, 2012 23:55:49 GMT -5
Thanks Sebastien. I guess now I know that I won't need to toss out as much (%) as I did with this last batch. Not that I sorted much anyway relative to many other folks on this forum.
How about beans that have a largish patch of husk missing thus exposing a fair bit of nib surface area?
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Post by jtoddm on Sept 22, 2012 0:48:45 GMT -5
Sebastian, can you comment on the pathogen risk with cracked beans? I had heard that there is a much higher risk of pathogens when you have cracked beans because they've had a chance for things to get into the inside which might not be killed fully by the roasting process. Or it assumed that you have a verified kill-step (or other checks) that get around this?
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Post by Sebastian on Sept 22, 2012 6:28:16 GMT -5
Frankly, all beans should be considered microbiologically 'hot". There are microfissures and cracks all over the beans that you can't see. Since the average pathogen is slightly smaller than a cavity on a mosquito, it doesn't matter if there's a big crack, or a little crack - they'll get in. Plus, your winnowing operation is probably terribly ineffective, meaning that you're going to get shall in your product anyway. Even it if twas fantastically effective, you're still going to get shell (with microbes on said shell) in your product. Net/net - it doesn't much matter, from a micro perspective, if you've got cracks or not - the key is to keep your raw streams segregated from your roasted streams, and roast in a way that provides a micro kill. Your roaster is your ONLY micro critical control point.
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Post by lilypa on Sept 22, 2012 12:12:54 GMT -5
Sebastien, what then is the roasting temperature criteria to assure an appropriate microbial kill rate? 300 F and up for X minutes? (I'm definitely not in the food science industry, but I am an engineer.) I assume it's temperature and roast time dependent. Are there any online resources such as charts that may show time and temperature curves? Plus, then there's the balance between over- and under-roasting from a flavor perspective.
Todd, thanks for asking Sebastien that question! I definitely threw out (composted) more beans from Origin A than I should have. I'm actually going to a concert in Berkeley tonight and plan to stop by The Pasta Shop to purchase and try out a couple of Dandelion's bars. I'm excited to see what you guys have done! Great blog!!
Forum, are there any obvious visual cues/tips to identify "bad-tasting/spoiled" raw cacao beans during the sorting process (besides the hole in the top germinated beans)?
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Post by Sebastian on Sept 22, 2012 20:44:19 GMT -5
No quick and easy answer. I've addressed this a dozen times here int he forums already. Afraid i don't have time to recap again. Don't mean to be short, but the info is here and i've not got much time.
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Post by lilypa on Sept 23, 2012 14:07:12 GMT -5
Understood Sebastien. I've now read a few of your older posts.
Reiterating to everyone else:
Can anyone tell me if there are any obvious visual cues/tips to identify "bad-tasting/spoiled" raw cacao beans during the sorting process (besides the hole in the top germinated beans and obvious broken beans)?
Are there particular raw nib colors to avoid? Light brown, purple, etc. or is coloration really origin dependent?
Cheers All, Dave
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Post by jtoddm on Sept 24, 2012 21:47:46 GMT -5
lilypa -- so glad to hear you like the blog. I always wonder if anyone reads our posts! Hope you got to pick up some bars at the pasta shop. Our factory should be open on Valencia st hopefully by the end of october and you should stop by and say hi.
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Post by lilypa on Sept 24, 2012 22:23:39 GMT -5
Hey Todd,
Yes. I picked up three of your bars: Rio Caribe, Ocumare, and an Ambanja. My friend bought a Columbian bar. We compared the Rio and the Columbian and both liked the Rio more. More complex flavor, it seemed to us. I haven't opened the Ocumare or Ambanja yet. Perhaps the wife and I will this week while on vacation.
I will definitely stop by your Valencia store one day when I can make it to SF. We have a one-year old now so my free time is a bit limited these days.
Keep up the blog!
Cheers, Dave
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Post by ramya on Oct 5, 2012 9:19:44 GMT -5
I am familiar with only indian beans but here in my experiance cracked and exposed beans are tend to be moldy than normal beans, moldy beans are not good, here i usualy see two types of mold one is white and other is yellow, while roasting exposed beans tend to be over roasted. But in a purchase it is very difficult to avoid cracked beans unless you are fermenting and drying your owen.
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