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Post by jhoff on Apr 14, 2013 15:03:17 GMT -5
This is my 5th or 6th batch and the one I like the least. I roasted them as I have for every batch (350 for 10 mins, stirring at 5, 300 for 10 mins again stirring at 5 then oven off for 10 mins again stirring at 5) but I refined / conched for 48 hours where I usually do more like 24 or less. Bag says the beans are "Bolivian Criollo/Trinatario Certified Organic 2011", receipt says "Bolivia - Organic 2011/2012" which I expected to be fairly mild. What could I have done wrong? I would expect longer in the Primer Wonder Grinder would have the opposite effect? Could it just be the beans? Anyone else have a similar experience? I should also mention that I make 100% chocolate although in the past I have added vanilla (beans chopped up) and / or cinnamon although this time I decided to try with nothing added. Over roasted maybe? I'd call the taste a bit sour or astringent (although I will admit I'm not entirely sure what that means). My father-in-law tasted it and said it tasted winey.
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gap
Apprentice
Posts: 390
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Post by gap on Apr 14, 2013 17:10:38 GMT -5
I'm still learning . . . .so take this with a big grain of salt.
I've had that before ("red wine" was exactly how we described it) and I have assumed it is because I under-roasted the beans.
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Post by jhoff on Apr 15, 2013 0:18:55 GMT -5
Interesting... maybe...
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Post by jhoff on Apr 15, 2013 1:44:53 GMT -5
And I don't suppose there's any way to "fix it" at this point?
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Post by anish on Apr 15, 2013 4:05:54 GMT -5
I guess you are dealing with ACIDIC BEANS. It happens usualy, because of wrong fermentation procedure.
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Post by Sebastian on Apr 15, 2013 5:32:24 GMT -5
Sour will be because of acids due to fermentation. Astringent means it will dry your mouth out, it's more a feel than a taste. Place a teabag on your tongue for a good example of what astringent is. Winey - who knows - everyone has a different definition. Red Wine flavors in chocolate are a good thing for me.
If it's indeed acidic, you may be able to adjust it via roasting longer, or adding a little bit of baking soda into your conche. Hard to say how to fix, or even if fixing is possible, w/o physically seeing it.
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Post by anish on Apr 15, 2013 6:07:21 GMT -5
Mmmmmm....... winey is awesome.
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Post by jhoff on Apr 15, 2013 8:59:29 GMT -5
Hey Sebastian - can I ship you some? I only had the 2 lbs of these beans but I'm curious to understand how to talk about the flavors and w/o someone knowledgeable to taste it, it's hard for me.
Re placing a teabag on your tongue - a wet or dry one?
I think this is more of a taste than a mouth feel. And *I* think it's more sour than winey but I'm curious for some other opinions.
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Post by Sebastian on Apr 16, 2013 6:05:14 GMT -5
Sure you can, but i won't have any time to convert them to liquor i'm afraid. if you've got liquor to go with them, that'd be more helpful.
wet or dry teabag, doesn't matter. both will dry your tongue out.
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Post by jhoff on Apr 16, 2013 9:00:38 GMT -5
Sebastian - liquor? I don't understand - what is liquor with respect to chocolate? All I have is the bars I made (100%) which is how I like to eat it And after trying the tea bag thing, there is definitely some astringency to the chocolate but I also think it has a sour taste but I'd really like the opinion of someone with experience then some ideas of the cause / how to avoid it in the future.
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Post by Sebastian on Apr 16, 2013 11:40:46 GMT -5
When you roast your beans, you then grind them up. the ground up beans form a liquid (when warm) - that liquid is referred to as liquor
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Post by jhoff on Apr 16, 2013 11:50:39 GMT -5
I guess I'm confused what I'd need to send you then. I've roasted, ground then refinded and molded into bars without adding anything else so I *think* I have the solid form of the liquor? So you'd just need to heat a bar? Maybe I'm missing something in the terminology? I can give you the details of all the steps I performed and what equipment I used...
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Post by Sebastian on Apr 16, 2013 20:11:43 GMT -5
You've got it then - you've just put your liquor into solid bar form - which is, well, still liquor if you'd like to send to me, i'll pm you my work address. note that i travel a great deal and may be weeks, perhaps even a month, before i may see it.
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Post by jhoff on Apr 16, 2013 21:13:19 GMT -5
Great - please PM me then. Of course no hurry... and thanks much!
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Post by Brad on Apr 17, 2013 3:13:15 GMT -5
JHoff;
There are a couple of things you can do to help mitigate your acids.
First of all, roast longer and at a bit lower of a temperature. It sounds like you have an acidic bean. Acidity has nothing to do with the variety of bean (Criollo, forastero, etc). It has to do with how the farmer handles/ferments them. Try 45 minutes at 300 degrees.
Pay attention to the smell too. If the roast is still very acidic, keep roasting until you get a nice "brownie baking" smell. There are differing degrees at this point of the roast that can still preserve the fruitiness, so don't worry about that so much.
Another thing you can do, is re-roast your nibs. What I mean by this is, roast the beans, remove the shells and then roast the nibs for another 50% of your original roasting time. What this does is expose more surface of the cocoa bean to the air, help drive off acids, and also create a more toasty flavour. I am doing this currently with one of my bean varieties, and then grinding with espresso grade coffee and steeping it into an amazing chocolate flavoured coffee. The single roast is very fruity, whereas the double roast is very nutty in comparison and balances nicely with the coffee when it's steeped.
Hope that helps. Brad
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