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Post by jhoff on Apr 17, 2013 10:26:38 GMT -5
Interesting. Sounds like the roasting is a bit of an art And I've been just experimenting I suppose - buying 2lbs of several varieties and making bars. And the "chocolate brownie" smell bit doesn't always work seems like - of the chocolate I've made so far, my favorite had nearly no smell while roasting and really no chocolate brownie smell. I started with Nicaragua Trinatario certified organic 2012 beans and added a bit of salt and cinnamon while refining. Wish I'd made more! Anyway, I posted about the lack of chocolate brownie smell when roasting these beans and got at least one reply from someone with the same experience. I suspect in general I've been under roasting. What would you suggest in general for a roast profile when using an oven? And not sure if it matters but it's a convection oven... Are you suggesting trying 300 degrees for 45 mins - just a constant temp? And should I hear beans "popping"? I generally don't or very little but with the convection oven fan, it can be a bit hard to tell.
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Post by jhoff on Apr 17, 2013 10:27:37 GMT -5
Oh and Brad - would you be willing to taste the chocolate from this batch and tell me what you think as well? I'm going to send some to Sebastian once he PMs me his address.
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Post by Sebastian on Apr 17, 2013 13:32:22 GMT -5
Lots of different types of acids can form during fermentation - the low/slow roast (bake?) really is only effective in addressing some of the more volatile acids, such as acetic - however for the larger acids - such as lactic - it's going to do absolutely nothing. to complex it even further, they're all going to be present at various levels at the same time - so it's quite difficult to fine tune w/o having seen the process used to make the beans, or the beans themselves i'm afraid. Loads and loads of urban legend and myth out there when it comes to roasting - and some of it's true some of the time, but rest assured that - as with almost everything agricultural - it's very difficult to find a one size fits all approach that consistently works
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Post by jhoff on Apr 17, 2013 13:49:23 GMT -5
yeah, that's what I thot. i suppose at some point i should choose one bean and stick to it then figure out what roast i like the best but i guess there's plenty of time to get there
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Post by Brad on Apr 17, 2013 18:14:06 GMT -5
I took me a couple of years of playing around with various types of beans to get my roasting down pat. If you are using a convection oven, then yes, 300 is a good point to start. I've found that with a convection oven you need to reduce the temperature by 25 degrees from what most recipes list.
When it comes to cocoa, I'm a firm believer that low and slow is the best, as it tends to burn quite easily, and once that burned chocolate flavour is in even a tiny bit of your beans/nibs, it will show up in all of your chocolate.
Sebastian is far more experienced than I when it comes to roasting, but one thing I can pass on to you, is that just like roasting coffee beans, the flavour of the final product is 100% subjective. You will never get mass consensus, so resign yourself to having fun experimenting, and making what you enjoy.
Case in point: I'm trying to do a chocolate infused coffee right now, and it's seemingly impossible to get a coffee that everybody rates a 10/10. Public samples/reviews are all over the board regardless of what bean/roast I use.
Cheers. Brad
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Post by Sebastian on Apr 22, 2013 20:49:37 GMT -5
Jhoff - recieved your package - i think the liquor tastes great - it's certainly got some astringency to it, and i think the winey-ness would translate to a very nice dark chocolate. I don't know your intent, but if you want to consume it just as the pure liquor (such as what you sent me), realize that almost all liquors are going to be bitter and/or astringent. there are ways to reduce that - certainly - but those ways i know are going to be tough to easily duplicate on an at-home scale. depends on how big a challenge you want i suppose if your intent is to mix it with sugar and vanilla etc and make a chocolate out of it, i do think it would make a very nice dark chocolate. diluting the liquor out with the sugar will help cut the astringency quite a bit. Thanks for sharing!
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Post by jhoff on Apr 23, 2013 1:31:08 GMT -5
Thanks Sebastian - the taste has grown on me - I only have one bar left I realized this was the first batch that I did NOT add vanilla (beans) to - might be part of the difference. I made another batch over the weekend using different beans (Dominican Republic "Conacado" - FT/Org '12) again w/o adding anything although I roasted differently - 45 mins at 300 degrees then after winnowing, I roasted the nibs at 375 for 5 mins (made a big difference in the taste of the nibs). Very different taste from what I sent you - no winey taste at all. I really prefer eating it w/o sugar - the sugar kinda ruins it... I did make one batch tho where I added 2 tsp cinnamon, 6 vanilla beans and 1/2 tsp of salt to 2 lbs of " 2lb Nicaragua Trinatario certified organic 2012" which has been my favorite thus far.
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Post by jhoff on Apr 23, 2013 1:32:35 GMT -5
Oh and I'm certainly up for a challenge - do tell me more.
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Post by Sebastian on Apr 23, 2013 5:22:43 GMT -5
The astringency is coming from a couple of classes of compounds that are fairly fragile. If you add lots of water to your liquor, and heat it up, you can degrade those compounds. Problem is you're going to have to get it very hot, and remove that water. Doing this will also take away some other flavors.
Alkalizing will also destroy those compounds - alkalization is simply doing the above, but dissolving some alkali in the water you're using. Either way, you'll need to remove the excess water. Alkalization, i should note, comes with all the standard warnings about working with basic chemicals.
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Post by Brad on Apr 23, 2013 8:39:53 GMT -5
Adding water to liquor... You have my attention on this one Sebastian! How does one do that without siezing it, and once successful, how does one get the water out without burning the cocoa solids?
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Post by jhoff on Apr 23, 2013 9:55:24 GMT -5
I was wondering the same...
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Post by anish on Apr 23, 2013 12:16:52 GMT -5
Vaccum
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Post by anish on Apr 23, 2013 12:18:31 GMT -5
Vacuum
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Post by Sebastian on Apr 24, 2013 5:05:41 GMT -5
Like i said - it's not without it's challenges
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Post by Brad on Apr 24, 2013 15:49:43 GMT -5
Bah!
You guys are so evasive sometimes!
So, what works best - a Dyson or an Electrolux???
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