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Post by chocodisiac on Apr 28, 2006 15:13:38 GMT -5
I bought a bar today ("oh boy..."). Specifically, I bought a Hershey's "Symphony" bar, despite its being milk chocolate, because I was curious to see how the "toffee chips" in it work out (fine, as it turns out, though they're a little lost since the chocolate itself is already so incredibly sweet). What caught my eye, though, upon reading the ingredients listing, was this one: "PGPR"! Anybody know what the heck that is about, and should we all run out and try some with our home-brew?
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Post by Brad on Apr 28, 2006 15:50:09 GMT -5
Hi.
Essentially it's another form of emulsifier, used in place of lecithin in approximately the same percentages.
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Post by Alan on Apr 29, 2006 9:37:54 GMT -5
By the way, welcome to the group. C-L
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Post by artpollard on May 3, 2006 15:47:55 GMT -5
PGPR is an emulsifier -- much in the same way as soy lecithin is. Think of it as soy lecithin on steroids as it has real potential to make chocolate flow. If you combine it with another emulsifier, it can almost make it flow like water.
I would suspect that they did this for molding purposes to create a sharp molding as well as to help avoid air bubbles.
-Art
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Post by sugaralchemy on May 27, 2006 22:37:01 GMT -5
PGPR is a very effective emulsifier. As with everything else, it may be used for good and bad purposes. Many chocolate manufacturers may use it to maintain a workable viscosity (for molding, enrobing, etc) while reducing cocoa butter content by a few percentage points to save money. Simply put, sugar costs less than cocoa butter, so the more sugar they can pack into there, the better it is for their bottom line. In these situations, lecithin and PGPR are usually used together.
PGPR can also be used to create unique products not otherwise possible, getting chocolate to almost water-like viscosity. It also can enhance the creamy texture of chocolate. It may also be used in an artistic way to create products with unique and previously impossible formulations, such as a very dark yet reasonably sweet milk chocolate - that's gonna need a ton of solids to come out well. I believe PGPR could also be used in place of soy lecithin to alleviate allergen concerns. There are also minor potential nutritional benefits (less fat, fewer calories) and potentially slight improvements with tempering and controlling bloom. PGPR is also very light in color (many types resemble canola oil in color), which can be helpful in white chocolate, although lecithin can be bleached.
Reducing fat slightly with PGPR can reduce calories and fat, although most people on this forum are probably not producing chocolate for health reasons, at least not health reasons alone. Unless you're working with non-sugar ingredients, you just end up replacing fat with sugar, which is not really a very good trade off anyhow.
Should PGPR be used in your chocolate? I would say for the most part, lecithin is suitable, unless you are: 1) Looking for higher solids content than possible with lecithin alone (see very dark sweet milk chocolate example) 2) Looking to remove lecithin, perhaps for allergen concerns 3) Looking for better emulsification to enhance creaminess
I don't think people at home are, by and large, concerned with a few percentage points of cocoa butter, except in very unusual situations. I have no idea where PGPR can be purchased by the end consumer, but I'm sure something could be worked out if you were sufficiently interested.
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Post by Sebastian on May 28, 2006 8:18:10 GMT -5
PGPR, while an emulsifier, acts in a very different way than lecithin does. Lecithin largely is present to reduce the apparent viscosity (effectively means you can use less cocoa butter), but remember that viscosity is measured in many different ways, of which apparent viscosity is only one. The other important variables (for chocoalte mfr) include plastic viscosity and yield value. Yield value is a measure of how much energy it takes to start the mass moving, while plastic viscosity measures once it's in motion, how likely is it to continue in motion. Lecithin has a modest impact on the latter, but doesn't do much for the former. PGPR's main impact is almost entirely on the yield value front, with very little impact on plastic viscosity. Almost always, if PGPR is to be used, it will be used in conjunction with lecithiin (i don't think i've ever seen it used on it's own). What including PGPR will allow you to achieve is a much flatter, smoother surface appearance due to very low yield values (think of a snickers bar - you know how it has those little ripples and waves on the surface? those are intentional - if you add PGPR to the formula, it's nigh impossible to get those ripples).
edit - PGPR stands for polyglycerol polyricinoleic acid - basically it's an esterified castor oil. Also, a good way to think of the difference between yield value and plastic value is in terms of ketchup - ketchup has a very high yield value (it's can be a bear to get the stuff out of the bottle, you have to bang on it to start flow), but a low plastic viscosity (once you get it started moving, as long as you keep the bottle upside down, it'll keep coming out...)
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Post by sugaralchemy on May 29, 2006 4:47:51 GMT -5
Man, I was hoping I could get away without getting into the rheology of chocolate, I was trying to keep it simple, but I should know better with Sebastian around
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gap
Apprentice
Posts: 390
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Post by gap on May 29, 2006 19:07:39 GMT -5
For both sugaralchemy and Sebastian - thanks for the information and thanks for keeping it "relatively" technical.
Even if you don't cover everything about a particular topic, it still gives people like me a good idea on what I can go away and research further. For instance, I had never heard about plastic viscosity v. yield value - it provides a perfect description/term, when I thought about it, for some other things I have read and actually experienced when making chocolates at home.
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Post by Brad on Jun 22, 2006 1:00:35 GMT -5
Hello All;
While this site has provided fabulous information on the various ingredients and uses of the ingredients in chocolate, there is one thing seriously lacking: SOURCES, SOURCES SOURCES!
For example: Maltitol. Thanks to this site, I would be able to make some WONDERFUL diabetic friendly chocolate. However, after 3 full days of trying to find a source for it here in Canada, I'm at wits end. Most of the people I call don't even know what it is! How can I get it? Where can I get it?
Another example: In a very recent post, Sebastian talked about several different types of Vanilla Beans. Locally here in Calgary, I have been able to source ONE type of vanilla bean, and I'm forced to pay $8 for three beans. I feel as though I should get a free jar of vaseline with each order!
I'm in the process of selling one of my companies to start down the road of making chocolate (among other things), and don't know what's harder - finding the equipment to do what I want, or trying to source the wholesale ingredients!
I'm just a few short months away from opening a small specialized chocolate company, and can't seem to get the ingredients I need!!!
PLEASE HELP!
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Post by sugaralchemy on Jun 22, 2006 1:32:20 GMT -5
Several different types of vanilla beans? Are you sure that wasn't me?
As for sources, I will send you a private message, please check your private messages shortly.
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Post by sugaralchemy on Jun 23, 2006 12:44:08 GMT -5
Brad, I've sent you a PM but not heard back. Did something happen?
I also want to remark that this forum is not for industrial chocolate making, it is for home chocolate making. I do believe that posters, particularly myself, added to the "Any suggestions regarding maltitol" thread some sources.
Furthermore, the sources that may be publicly discussed may be limited, as John is clearly here to make a profit and doesn't really want the forums HE set up and manages to become a labyrinth of links to other suppliers for various things he does and/or could sell.
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Post by Alchemist on Jul 5, 2006 11:41:36 GMT -5
Sugaralchemy, Thank you for noting this is a business. I appreciate it. On that note, I am ALWAYS open to carrying new products. If you want something I don't have for are just having a difficult time finding it, let me know (here or privately) and I will do my best. I really want to the THE source for all you home made chocolate needs.
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rik
Neophyte
Posts: 5
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Post by rik on Jul 11, 2006 19:04:09 GMT -5
Hey Brad
Please check your private messages or drop me an email rik@medios.co.nz
Regards Rik
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Post by prairiegirl on Aug 14, 2006 23:52:29 GMT -5
Brad, I live in Calgary and I can tell you where to get wholesale prices for what you are looking for. I am actually planning to open a shop in the Calgary area to compete with Bernard C. Of course it will take time to develop momentum! Anyhow, I know where to get vanilla beans for a very reasonable price. And of course other ingrediants as well.
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