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Post by Alan on Mar 13, 2006 17:07:17 GMT -5
Dear all, Does anyone have any idea about how much it would cost to start such a small-scale artisanal factory if one uses a setup similar to what Grenada uses here: chocolatetalk.proboards56.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1139797949&page=1#1139797949Something like: 1) A refurbished melangeur 2) A refurbished winnower 3) A roaster set up 4) A temperer 5) A cocoa butter press Am I forgetting anything big and expensive? What do you think that the range would be $10,000-$15,000? The chances that I would ever do anything like this are slim to none, but I was just wondering about it because of some new developments lately. Sincerely, CL
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Post by Sebastian on Mar 13, 2006 17:32:51 GMT -5
It's likely the melangeur itself would cost you that One just became available in Europe from a Kraft factory, I believe Wolf is representing it. From the looks of it (and i'm going from memory here), it had what appeared to be about a 50 lb capacity. It's awfully hard to find used melangeurs (even harder to find new ones, i wager....)
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Post by Alan on Mar 13, 2006 18:08:23 GMT -5
I see. So we are talking more like $25,000-$35,000?
I assume that the temperer would be the next most expensive, and then the winnower...
Thanks,
Alan
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Post by Sebastian on Mar 13, 2006 19:21:17 GMT -5
Hard to say. I've never seen a small scale winnower up for sale, so that's a hard one for me to ballpark. You could probably fairly easily create a decent roaster for not a whole lot. As far as tempering goes, it all depends on what kind of set up you want, what scale you're talking about. You could go for something small (100 lbs) and manual that would run, say, $5000, or you could go for the gold and spend as much money as you want. I've also never seen a small scale cocoa press for sale, so also hard to price. If you want to consistently press to a given % fat, you're likely going to have a pretty good investment into it once all said and done. If you're not so concerned with consistency or very low fat levels (20 % and lower), you could probably do the trick with a manual screw press of your own design..but that's only part of it - am assuming you want to press to make cocoa powder (and get butter). You'll need some way to grind and temper the cocoa powder once you've pressed it, so a mill of some sort and some additional thermal controls. You probably don't want to operate a pathogen lab, so you'll have to factor in contracted microbiological testing (wouldn't want to be killing your customers now). Also at minimum you'll need a metal detector (your screens on your press and winnower will break) - and while the FDA considers any piece of metal < 7 mm to be noninjurious, I'd make the arguement that you're going to want to catch those pieces of metal well before 7 mm (and hopefully you've got a magnet system capable of pullng them out of your product, lest you trash all your hard work).
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Post by Alan on Mar 13, 2006 19:44:11 GMT -5
Dear Sebastian, Thanks for clarifying some more things for me to take into consideration. I was thinking of the press for pressing cocoa butter for my own use. However, perhaps it would be less problematic to order cocoa butter from a reputable source and therefore cut down on complications. Also, I would have to find a way to sell the cocoa powder, and that doesn't sound very interesting to me. This is especially the case if I would be focusing primarily on higher percentage chocolates without added cocoa butter. Just things for me to think about. Then there is the issue of packaging of course. I really like Domori's method of using nice small boxes with the chocolate inside contained within mylar type sealed pouches printed with "Domori", but I imagine this is one of the more expensive packaging options, and would require me to invest in the packaging equipment too I suppose. I agree though. The roaster seems like it would be the least of my problems. I'll have to give all of this some more thought, do some more research, and sleep on it for a good long time. As a side note, Sebastian, do you know anything about this: The University of ChocolateI don't know how much one can really learn in such a short period of time, but it peaks my interest. Alan
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Post by Sebastian on Mar 13, 2006 20:18:58 GMT -5
Yes, I know the fellow who runs it. All in all it's a very interesting program. If you've got the time and money, it's a wonderful experience. There's nothing quite like hands on learning. It's not really a practical experience if your goal is to open a shop or a business. but it's educational in it's own right and an experience you'll not soon regret.
Domori uses what's called a flow wrap with a cold seal. You can probably find one used at union machinery if you keep your eye on their site long enough. Would expect to pay upwards of 50,000 used for it for a small one. You'd also need to find a supplier of the foil wrap - i have no idea how much that goes for.
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Post by chocomania on Mar 13, 2006 22:27:23 GMT -5
guess what folks? melangeurs are used in making olive oils. here it is: www.oliveoilsource.com/cgi-bin/product_display_item.asp?p_items_id=251&p_cat_id=7 but of course if anyone can find an old one that would be better. Im also researching on putting up an artisanal chocolate factory so any info you can all share would be great. by the way, presses can be found on that site as well. temperer maybe the easiest to find as there are many small scale tempering machines. Here's a thought, can we use the commercial santha wet grinder for larger scale production as a melangeur?
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Post by Alan on Mar 13, 2006 22:36:43 GMT -5
Here's a thought, can we use the commercial santha wet grinder for larger scale production as a melangeur? Well, I think that John has been has been in talks with Santha about developing a larger batch Santha; perhaps something that could hold 20 or more lbs. However, I don't know the details though. Hopefully he will let us know what he has been thinking. Alan
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Post by Samantha Madell on Mar 14, 2006 4:52:31 GMT -5
Hi Alan,
I'm writing from Australia, where my partner and I have spent the past 2 years establishing a small-scale chocolate factory (and we're still working on it!). Our inspiration for setting up the factory was to provide a fair trade market for cocoa grown in the South Pacific. Our premises are also strictly nut free, and we're working on organic certification, so, to some extent, we're doing it the hard way!
In your original list of equipment, you didn't include a refiner, or a conch. We bought our granite roll-refiner second hand for AUD$1200 - but it had to be completely stripped and re-furbished. A friend in the mainstream chocolate industry recommended using a Hobart brand mixer as a conch - they're quite easy to find 2nd hand.
My partner made a fantastic winnower using an air-conditioning blower. I use a Crankandstein cracker that I bought from John, and it can get through a remarkably large quantity of beans!
In terms of pressing cocoa butter - we chose to use a screw expeller, rather than a hydraulic press. This has its advantages and disadvantages, but the end product is absolutely lovely, and we're really glad that we went to the effort of pressing our own cocoa butter - if for no other reason than that it takes about 3kg of beans to make 1kg of butter, which means that we can buy all of those beans from the growers we want to support. This, in turn, means that we know for sure that a fair price was paid for the beans, AND we know precisely where our cocoa butter comes from (it also helps the flavour profile of the chocolate, because the cocoa butter comes from the same beans that the chocolate is made from).
There's a bunch of other things you're likely to need if you start working with wholesale quantities of cocoa beans. For example, beans are generally shipped in 60kg hessian bags. The bags create a lot of dust and fluff, so you'd need space for bean storage, and a means of cleaning the beans before processing. You'd probably need a heated holding kettle for the finished product as well. Then you'll need enough heavy-duty moulds to accommodate the larger batches you'll be making, and somewhere to cool the chocolate. The list goes on and on, and I think it's safe to say that it would cost substantially more than US$15,000.
------------------------------------------------------
Regarding the University of Chocolate - I attended the course in 2005, and feel it didn't represent good value for money. I think the value of the course depends VERY much on what stage of cocoa knowledge you've reached. For instance, if you've never seen a cocoa plantation before, you'd probably find it more interesting and useful than I did. For me, by far the best thing about the course was meeting the other students who attended.
The problems I had with the course include the fact that the Plantations' chocolate factory doesn't press their own cocoa butter, or even roast their own beans (although they were in the process of setting up a roasting facility at that time). Also, we got rained-in at Kapawi lodge in the Amazon, which put the program back a day (onto a public holiday) and meant that we missed out on some important sessions.
On top of that, a number of items that were promised in the program simply didn't happen (for example, we were accommodated in a high-rise hotel in Guayaquil instead of at the cocoa hacienda, which I'd really been looking forward to). The list goes on.
Perhaps the worst thing for me (being a proponent of organics and fair trade) was seeing child labour being used at the fermentation co-op, and also the total absence of rainforest trees at the plantations (despite the fact that Plantations has Rainforest Alliance certification, and makes quite a big deal out of supposedly protecting the rainforest).
Sam
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Post by Alan on Mar 14, 2006 8:03:06 GMT -5
Dear Sam,
Thank you greatly for your contribution to this thread. I have been reading some "chocolate industry" books again to refresh my memory about everything involved, and came across the issue of cleaning last night. So, I am interested to know what you have to do to clean the beans, if it takes any special machinery, and how time intensive it is, etc.
Regarding the conch and refiner, I actually was focusing on the melangeur so as to avoid buying those two separate pieces of equipment. At least in the short-term, I would probably just use a melangeur to refine, mix, and conch.
I guess that if I can't find a reasonably priced winnower, that I have the option of making one myself, which is something that I hadn't considered until your post. I guess I'll have to do some thinking about how that could be done, as I'm not the most mechanically saavy person on the face of the earth; though I am willing to try.
I guess that spending $50,000 on a machine for packaging is a little extreme for a new company, and so, I'll have to rethink packaging. I suppose that it must be something that looks good, but yet, is not too expensive too produce.
I also have to think about the factory space. Since you recommend a separate area for storage and cleaning of beans, that makes at least two sections. I was thinking it also might be better to winnow in that same area to avoid contaminating the product that is being refined with dust. Does that sound reasonable to you? Finally, it makes sense to me to have a small super-cooled room into which molded chocolate can be moved (on a rolling table) in order to set it, for de-moulding, for storage, and for packaging. Does this also sound about right to you?
Thank you, again, for your many insights.
Sincerely,
Alan
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Post by Alchemist on Mar 14, 2006 8:59:33 GMT -5
Alan, you are right. I have been talking with Santha about a larger capacity Santha.
I have a conference that I am attending at the end of March. After that, information for the larger ones will be available. Just a ballpark, but the largest should run about $1300 with shipping in the US and hold around 40-50lb of chocolate.
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Post by Alan on Mar 14, 2006 9:02:35 GMT -5
Alan, you are right. I have been talking with Santha about a larger capacity Santha. I have a conference that I am attending at the end of March. After that, information for the larger ones will be available. Just a ballpark, but the largest should run about $1300 with shipping in the US and hold around 40-50lb of chocolate. ;D I look forward to details! Alan
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Post by Sebastian on Mar 14, 2006 12:24:05 GMT -5
Have someone do your packaging for you...there are plenty of places that can accomidate flow wrapping, metal detection, etc for very reasonable prices...
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Post by Alan on Mar 14, 2006 13:17:25 GMT -5
Have someone do your packaging for you...there are plenty of places that can accomidate flow wrapping, metal detection, etc for very reasonable prices... Good idea. I hadn't considered that. Thanks! Alan
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Post by Alan on Mar 14, 2006 15:57:16 GMT -5
guess what folks? melangeurs are used in making olive oils. here it is: www.oliveoilsource.com/cgi-bin/product_display_item.asp?p_items_id=251&p_cat_id=7 but of course if anyone can find an old one that would be better. Im also researching on putting up an artisanal chocolate factory so any info you can all share would be great. by the way, presses can be found on that site as well. temperer maybe the easiest to find as there are many small scale tempering machines. Here's a thought, can we use the commercial santha wet grinder for larger scale production as a melangeur? Thanks for the link to that site. I have e-mailed them for a quote on the 2-roller mill. So far, getting information out of them is like pulling teeth, but as soon as I know something, I'll let you all know. I have a feeling, though, that the price is going to be astronomical. We'll see. The larger batch Santha just might be the best option. Alan
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