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Post by Ben on May 15, 2017 7:44:25 GMT -5
I've never used silk, but I think the idea is that you keep it on hand, and don't have to wait 8 hours for each batch. Agreed that knowing how to temper chocolate without it is important, but suggesting that it takes 8 hours to temper a batch of chocolate with silk is a bit misleading. Since it doesn't really take any hands-on time to produce, my guess is that those who use silk regularly are producing it more or less constantly in the background, all while doing other things.
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Post by Brad on May 16, 2017 3:56:28 GMT -5
...that's assuming you have the forethought to always have silk on hand and that it's perfect. It seems to me that one of the photos on this thread shows an improperly tempered chocolate bar because the user not only doesn't know how to temper chocolate, but also screwed up with silk.
I'd rather screw up in 10 minutes than wait 8 hours to find out I'd screwed up and then sit there for another 8 hours hoping and wondering what to do because I didn't know how to temper chocolate and only knew how to use silk (which I apparently don't know how to make consistently either).
My opinion stands: If you know how to temper chocolate, then you don't need silk. There is only one exception I can think of, and that's if you're spraying colored cocoa butter. It's nice to have all of that in a 93 degree cabinet perfectly crystalized and ready to go. Tempering that stuff is a PITA.
Brad.
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Post by Ben on May 16, 2017 9:04:05 GMT -5
As I said, I agree that knowing how to temper without silk is important, but I don't see any problem with using it if it works for someone and their process. If you are constantly screwing it up and having to wait for hours and hours, I'd say that isn't working for that person or their process. But, if you are consistently making silk correctly and it makes tempering easier/faster/whatever for you, then I'd say go for it. Also agreed that tempering colored cocoa butter is a PITA.
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Post by joetlnf on May 16, 2017 12:50:30 GMT -5
Brad, if you're going to take the time to write lengthy responses, you should at least take the time to read the whole thread. Because you haven't done so, you end up limiting the discussion to yourself and the moderator.
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Post by Ben on May 16, 2017 13:05:16 GMT -5
Side note: These forums aren't moderated, and I'm not really a moderator. I volunteered to help John keep the forums clear of obvious spam, so he granted me 'moderator' status. Besides deleting obvious spam, I will also occasionally move a thread to a more appropriate forum, but that's all the moderation that happens.
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Post by Brad on May 17, 2017 2:01:38 GMT -5
Oh... I read the thread. Let's recap shall we?
1 Foodgeek is thinking about buying a tempering machine. 2. Mark pipes in and says silk is much quicker (5 minutes and chocolate is tempered with silk) 3. Foodgeek replies that silk isn't working for him and posts photos of the problem he is experiencing. 4. Brad chimes in and says that silk is a waste of time. Proves it with video. Star to finish in 20 minutes as opposed to tempering with silk that takes at least 8 hours to create the silk and THEN 5 minutes to temper the chocolate with it. 5. Joe says Brad is wrong. 6. Brad says put your money where your mouth is. 7. Joe has no response because Brad is right, and simply whines about Brad not knowing what the thread is about.
This thread is NOT about silk. This thread is about a guy having trouble tempering small amounts of chocolate and is thinking about a tempering machine. Creating silk requires a piece of equipment that will create a VERY precise, temperature controlled environment for cocoa butter. A tempering machine does exactly the same thing, EXCEPT that a tempering machine can both create silk AND temper chocolate (you guys didn't think of that did ya??).
Forget silk. Learn to temper chocolate. When you get to the point where you are working with amounts that you can't use up in a matter of a couple of minutes, THEN buy a table top tempering machine and let it do the work for you.
I don't believe in unnecessary gadgets. My company is one of the best in Canada and my staff do everything by hand. I believe I'm aptly qualified to answer this question and so far I haven't seen anyone disagree with my point that it takes at least EIGHT HOURS to temper chocolate using silk BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO MAKE THE SILK FIRST.
So... NO it DOESN'T take 5 minutes to temper chocolate with silk. It takes eight hours and 5 minutes, and for the tiny amounts of chocolate you guys are talking about, that's simply ridiculous.
Oh... by the way, there are a number of really bad table top tempering machines on the market today. I'm in the process of designing one that solves all of the issues of the ones currently on the market. Wait a couple of months. You'll be glad you did.
Brad
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Post by joetlnf on May 17, 2017 4:26:27 GMT -5
Did my comment really come off as whiny? I guess I'll have to tone it down.
Everyone on this thread, except for me, has already explicitly stated that they know how to temper by hand without silk. So why would they try silk? Who knows....curiosity perhaps. But more importantly, why not? You seem to object to this type of curiosity and experimentation, which is strange since my impression is that you are largely self-taught and learned from your own mistakes.
As I know that you must know, there are a lot of people on this board who make and temper chocolate at different quantities and for a wide variety of purposes. Not everybody is making chocolate at the scale that you do, and many have no interest in doing that. Put another way, not everything is about you and your story.
Your claim that it takes 8 hours to temper using silk is absurd. There may be other arguments against using it, but that is not one of them. Like any other ingredient, anyone who chooses to use silk regularly would have plenty prepared and on hand in proportion to the chocolate that they have. It is not difficult to make.
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Post by Ben on May 17, 2017 7:51:22 GMT -5
Hey! I don't get a mention in the recap?!?!
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Post by Brad on May 17, 2017 12:03:57 GMT -5
Joetl:"...Your claim that it takes 8 hours to temper using silk is absurd." Brad: "uhhh... Joetl don't you have to MAKE the silk to use it? Maybe in your kitchen the magic silk fairies ride in on their unicorns and deliver it on demand, but not in mine. In my kitchen we have to MAKE the silk first, and THAT takes at least 8 hours. In the real world where there are no magic fairies, and unicorns, THAT process must also be included in the timeline to tempering your 3lbs of chocolate if you plan to use it."
One other thing that YOU DIDN"T GET Joetl: This thread isn't about silk. It's about whether or not a dude should get a tempering machine, and given that he's still having trouble tempering (photo evidence included), MY PROFESSIONAL ADVICE (because I'm qualified to give it) is that he buy a tempering machine.
Oh... Sorry Ben.
...AND THEN THERE'S THIS COOL GUY NAMED BEN WHO LET'S ME HOP ON MY SOAP BOXES AND PROVIDE ADVICE TO THOSE WHO NEED IT AND POINT OUT THE OBVIOUS TO OTHERS WHO CAN'T SEE IT FOR THEMSELVES.
Ben's cool. Haha!
Cheers
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Post by Ben on May 17, 2017 14:16:00 GMT -5
Thank you.
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Post by joetlnf on May 17, 2017 17:00:12 GMT -5
Brad,
Given your aversion to unnecessary gadgets, why would you recommend a tempering machine to the OP? He stated that he already owns 2 sous vide machines.
If his chocolate batches are 3kg each, then a single batch would require 15g of silk to temper. He could easily put enough cocoa butter in a single mason jar for 500g of silk, which translates to more than 30 batches.
You seem to think that new silk needs to be prepared before each batch, that it requires close observation, and that its preparation is a serial process that can't be done in the background or in parallel with other things. All of those assumptions are incorrect. Silk can be poured out into bars and set, and those bars can then be grated to provide just enough silk for each batch. The set silk bars can be stored in the same temperature-controlled environment as tempered chocolate (e.g. your inventory) and will have good shelf life and stable crystal form the best that I can tell. I have silk from months ago that I'm still using and it works perfectly well.
I appreciate what you contribute to the forum with your knowledge and experience, and I can imagine the heavy burden that must come with being the world's bad boy of chocolate making. But if you mellow out even just a little bit, you can still be the bad boy of Canada (at least) and I think people will get a lot more out of the discussion.
-Joe
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Post by Brad on May 17, 2017 18:57:43 GMT -5
With respect to set silk bars... WTF??? You're suggesting making tempered cocoa butter bars so you can seed your chocolate bars? That's kind of silly, and redundant. This goes back to my original point: learn how to temper. Then you don't have to spend many hours making silk to mold up into bars so you can use it to temper bars. Silk discussion is dead. My point is made. In the spirit of helping, the reason I recommend a tempering machine is because sous vide machines are not tempering machines and are not designed to hold a product in a homogenous format at a precise temperature. The single biggest problem people have is that they don't understand that the entire time they are working with chocolate it is trying to go solid, and at a microscopic level the surface of the chocolate is a different temperature than the chocolate in the middle of the batch. It is this EXACT oversight that causes streaking on the surface of what is otherwise perfectly tempered chocolate. Stirring is crucial to working with chocolate, and in spite of the failings of most of the small tempering machines on the market, they ALL do one thing in common: they continually agitate the chocolate to prevent uneven crystalization. You can dig out a swimming pool with a spoon, Or you can do it with a big shovel. I'm all about using the right tool for the right job, and this philosophy is why EVERY person who works with chocolate on a daily basis has at least one (usually several) tempering machines, and those planning on getting into the industry as a career pretty much ALWAYS make their first big purchase a tempering machine. that being said, of all of the small tempering machines on the market, the Hilliards Little Dipper is about the most durable. It's a bit pricey but it's a tank. The motor won't burn out and you can work with and temper as much as 20lbs of chocoalte a day with that thing. Oh... and it makes silk too if you're so inclined. LOL Brad
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Post by joetlnf on May 17, 2017 21:02:19 GMT -5
You're again making a recommendation based on the assumption that someone is interested in scaling up their production and tempering larger batches of chocolate on a daily basis...and given that assumption, your recommendation completely makes sense to me, so thank you for providing context. Who knows if it is relevant to what the OP was interested in learning about, perhaps he will come back to check one day.
I think I now understand your dislike of silk, since apparently for you it is not REAL tempering. We have a different understanding of what tempered chocolate is. We're going to disagree on this. Such is life.
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Post by mark on May 31, 2017 2:24:29 GMT -5
Brad, I don't understand why you appear to be so aggressively opposed to using Silk. Yes, it takes a while to make, but that doesn't mean you need to sit around twiddling your thumbs while that happens. Setting up the silk production takes me five minutes, then I just leave it for 24 hours while I do more fun things. If you spend just 5 minutes every day, you'll be able to build up a massive amount of silk and you'll never run out. Remember, you're only using 1%, so a little bit goes a long way.
With my silk in hand, I'd be happy to take 1000 Loonies off you any time Brad. My chocolate will be tempered and I'll have had a beer while you're still trying to cool your chocolate down to the low temperature before heating it up again.
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Post by lyndon on May 31, 2017 3:31:32 GMT -5
I just have a few hundred grams of liquid silk sitting in a bain marie 24/7, nice and easy and takes off at least an hour from my tempering cycle with my Rev V. I haven't got round to trying to make solid bars of it yet, I tried once in my Rev but it didn't work.
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