|
Post by Randy on Nov 23, 2013 19:49:05 GMT -5
I foresee myself outgrowing the Chamion grinder. It works great for what I've been doing, but I feel like it'll overheat and just plain take too long if I move up to producing 30-40 lbs of liquor at a time. Do any of you have some advice for what makes sense as the next step, or would you just be patient and keep working the Champion?
|
|
|
Post by lilypa on Nov 24, 2013 18:36:57 GMT -5
As for cracking your beans, I think many folks (small scale) still use the Champion. As for pre-grinder, prior to refining, I've seen and heard of folks using this: www.pleasanthillgrain.com/nut_butter_machine.aspx. Note though, I have no personal experience with this, but it may be what I move up to in the future.
|
|
|
Post by Randy on Nov 25, 2013 14:04:19 GMT -5
lilypa, I do mean for pre-grinding more than for cracking. That' is a gorgeous machine you point to, and seems like it might be just the ticket. Expensive, but you get what you pay for, as they say. I have something new to aspire to, there, but too rich for my blood at this point. Anyone know of a solution that's, say, half that price or less?
|
|
|
Post by Ben on Nov 25, 2013 14:41:08 GMT -5
Randy: I've looked at a bunch of different ways to pre-grind, but so far the peanut butter grinder is the least expensive option I've found. There are a few pre-grinders specifically intended for cacao, but they're a lot more expensive. Another option is a vertical cutter mixer, but again, they're a lot more expensive.
I used to use one of the peanut butter grinders, but found that it didn't save me much (if any) time. Now, I just add the nibs directly to the melanger. I've done this using small melangers (spectra-11, cocoatown ecgc-12, premiere wonder grinder) as well as using a spectra-40.
I'm planning to try out a small vertical cutter mixer to see if it can speed the process of loading the melanger. I've heard from another maker that they're using one. I'll probably go with a smaller one that would be able to pregrind about a third of a full batch.
|
|
|
Post by lilypa on Nov 25, 2013 15:41:26 GMT -5
Randy, yes...I meant for pre-grinding.
Ben, when you add the nibs directly to the melanger, do you add them in increments (say 0.5 lb at a time)? I tried adding nibs directly to my Spectra 11 a couple times, but found it to be much more of a hassle baby-sitting the melanger than using my Champion to pre-grind. As for the amount of time it took me to add the nibs directly versus pre-grinding in the Champion, it was about the same. However, pre-grinding, to me, speeds up the melanging process since the particle sizes have already been reduced significantly, cocoa butter has been released, and the liquor has been pre-warmed. Have you found a method of adding the nibs directly that didn't require much melanger baby-sitting?
|
|
|
Post by Ben on Nov 25, 2013 19:50:50 GMT -5
I just add them slowly over time. Once some of it has become a little liquid it goes a little quicker. But I generally do a little and then come back 10 minutes later or so and add some more. I'd imagine that using the champion to pregrind 30 lbs of nib would take a good while.
|
|
|
Post by lilypa on Nov 25, 2013 21:20:39 GMT -5
It takes me about 90 minutes for 9 lbs of nib, but that includes Champion setup, adding the liquor to my Spectra 11, and washing time for the Champion parts (basically the whole step, start to finish). That would take quite a while pre-grinding 30 lbs of nib with a Champion. Additionally, I think the Champion would break after a few batches of that magnitude.
Do you ever use a heat gun or hair dryer heat up your Santha too, to speed up the process?
|
|
|
Post by Ben on Nov 26, 2013 10:26:08 GMT -5
Yeah, I use a heat gun for about 10 minutes after adding the first bit of nibs. After that, it usually runs fine without any added heat, although I'll sometimes add too many nibs and need to use the heat gun for a few more minutes. I'd estimate that I'm able to add a full 30 lbs of nib in about 90 minutes or so.
Clay at the Chocolate Life estimated that a large vertical cutter mixer could turn 20 lbs of nib into liquor in about 5 minutes. I'm looking at a smaller one that could probably only do 10 lbs, but if it can process 10 lbs of nib into liquor in 5 minutes, that's only 15 minutes for the full 30 lbs, which would be a huge time saver.
|
|
|
Post by lilypa on Nov 26, 2013 15:30:50 GMT -5
Yeah, every little bit of time helps. How much do you think the small vertical cutter mixer would cost? Also...do you think it takes you longer to refine/conche though by adding nib directly to your Santha than pre-grinding say with your peanut-butter grinder?
Maybe I'll look into getting a heat gun. I'm tired of using my wife's hair dryer at times. I have NO experience with a heat gun. Do you think they're any more efficient than a decent hair dryer?
|
|
gap
Apprentice
Posts: 390
|
Post by gap on Nov 27, 2013 0:06:30 GMT -5
I don't know if it's cost effective compared to other options, but I've pre-ground in a thermomix. You can take it far enough in that to release the cocoa butter and have it go straight into the Spectra.
On heat guns versus hair dryers - I guess it is more efficient because it gets the stones heated faster. But the stones should only be given so much heat (due to the epoxies on the machine) so a hairdryer does give you the same result - it probably just takes a few minutes longer.
|
|
|
Post by Ben on Nov 27, 2013 0:32:23 GMT -5
As gap says, a heat gun gets a lot hotter so can heat things up much quicker.
I wouldn't say that it takes me any longer to refine/conche with adding the nib directly than it used to when I used the peanut butter grinder. It's hard to say for sure, though, as I've never tried pregrinding before loading the spectra 40. My guess is that it takes roughly the same amount of time to grind the nib using the melanger as it did using the peanut butter grinder.
The small VCMs (commercial food processors, really) that I'm looking at are between $800 and $2000.
|
|
|
Post by lilypa on Nov 27, 2013 17:10:15 GMT -5
Thanks Gap and Ben. I'll take a look at heat guns then, while noting the fact that yes I could screw up the epoxy on the Santha drum pretty quickly with a heat gun.
From a business standpoint, if the VCM can save you an hour plus per batch of chocolate it could pay for itself pretty quickly depending upon your volume. Would you be willing to share which units you're looking at?
|
|
|
Post by Ben on Nov 29, 2013 9:36:43 GMT -5
Happy to help, lilypa! A couple notes on heat guns: I used one for 2+ years on my Cocoatown ultras with no epoxy problems. Also, I believe John Nanci tried to take a Santha bowl apart at some point using a heat gun to break the epoxy and was either unsuccessful or maybe it eventually worked, but took a lot longer than he expected. The VCMs/food processors I've been looking at are the 3 or 4.5 quart Robot Coupes listed on this page: www.webstaurantstore.com/search/robot-coupe.htmlIt'd be nice to get one that could do a whole 30lbs of nib at once, but then you're getting into the $8500+ range. Also, they're a lot bigger, and require floorspace which I don't really have.
|
|
|
Post by Randy on Nov 29, 2013 20:50:56 GMT -5
Thank you all for this discussion. Excactly the kind of help I needed.
|
|
|
Post by lilypa on Dec 3, 2013 0:10:19 GMT -5
Thanks Ben for the heat gun notes! Looking at Robot Coupe's web site, they list the smallest "vertical cutter mixer" as their R8 model, which costs $4862 at the Web Restaurant Store. Their 3 - 4.5 qt Coupes are listed as "bowl cutter mixers". Do the BCMs use the same mechanism as the VCMs? To me the BCMs look like heavy-duty, high HP, food processors that use S-blades. Is that what a VCM is too? The pictures of their VCMs seem to show that as well.
|
|