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Post by benvt on Sept 1, 2009 17:59:37 GMT -5
It looks like we have cocoa moths. At first we just noticed some beans with holes and webs inside and a couple moths around. Now we've found webby egg covered beans and larvae. Anyone know the best thing to do about them?
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Post by Sebastian on Sept 1, 2009 18:38:04 GMT -5
Kill them.
They're coming out because your beans were not fumigated, nor are they being stored in a cold area. It's fine not to fumigate them, but they should be stored in a refrigerated environment to prevent hatching.
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Post by Alchemist on Sept 2, 2009 7:23:39 GMT -5
I treat everything here with a CO2 blanket upon arrival and usually once a month or so thereafter. History (5 years after a hatching) I am cocoa moth free, so it is effective.
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Post by cheebs on Sept 2, 2009 8:45:46 GMT -5
Would freezing work?
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Post by Sebastian on Sept 2, 2009 10:36:43 GMT -5
Yes, as an inhibitor. If you freeze it, and allow them to warm back up and sit for extended periods, you'll likely see moths once more.
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Post by holycacao on Sept 2, 2009 11:02:39 GMT -5
When you say CO2 blanket, are you adding CO2 (and how) or just storing the beans with little ventilation? Thanks, Jo
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Post by Brad on Sept 2, 2009 15:49:59 GMT -5
What about fogging the area with Pyrethrin?
My understanding is that it's a plant extract (Chrisanthemum), degrades quickly when exposed to oxygen and light, is a good insecticide, and has a half-life which after a very short period of time makes the area completely safe for use around food.
Anybody's thoughts on this?
Brad
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Post by reelchemist on Sept 2, 2009 18:46:48 GMT -5
Great thread, and very topical, I just got a batch from Vanuatu and they are very webby and I am concerned I might have a problem if I don't process fast enough. How do you do your CO2 blanket John and what grade of CO2 is required, what timeframe?
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Post by Alchemist on Sept 3, 2009 6:54:14 GMT -5
I would not use Pyrethrin personally. It might take care of the area, but not the beans themselves.
As for CO2, you can do it one of two ways - either compressed gas or blocks of dry ice. I use the later as it is available locally, but either would work.
Every singe bag I have is either place whole or opened into a 55 gallon drum. For dry ice, I use about 4 oz per drum. That amount allows for over 7 volume exchanges in the drum, a figure I found some years ago when I found this technique used to treat grains.
A couple points about it. If you use dry ice, don't put the ice directly on the beans. It is too cold and draw too much moisture which is not good. I just put the ice on a couple layers burlap bag and that works fine. Also, keep the container closed at least 24 hours, and the references said 48-72 and retreat once a month. I found every other month works fine so far for me.
Questions?
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Post by Brad on Sept 3, 2009 11:55:37 GMT -5
While that solution would work for smaller amounts of beans, it won't work for us. Given the cocoa I currently have in stock, that would mean I have over 110 barrels. Storage-wise that takes up too much room.
Any other solutions?
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Post by Sebastian on Sept 3, 2009 12:57:45 GMT -5
Keep your storage area at 55F.
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Post by benvt on Sept 3, 2009 14:55:02 GMT -5
We're considering putting all our bags of beans in an airtight closet and releasing co2 from a tank or dry ice.
I think I found out how we got so many moths. We had a couple bags of beans that were ruined due to flooding. They were in a spare room and today I found grubs and moth cocoons all over the tops of the bags.
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Post by Alchemist on Sept 4, 2009 8:50:45 GMT -5
While that solution would work for smaller amounts of beans, it won't work for us. Given the cocoa I currently have in stock, that would mean I have over 110 barrels. Storage-wise that takes up too much room. Any other solutions? Very true Brad. I was addressing the small stocks that I knew Ben was speaking of. As Sebastian says, keep them cool. Even here I rotate stock enough to allow this. But I suspect at some point it will be too much and I will build or dedicate a small storage area that is cool and/or given that I will build it, I may make it air tight and still gas it with CO2 once a month. A dedicated room you can refrigerate is the way to go.
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Post by holycacao on Sept 5, 2009 15:46:10 GMT -5
If the room is airtight, why not just seal the cocoa bags on pallets in plastic/vac seal? I thought I read (Beckett, somewhere) that cocoa should be stored in a well ventilated room. In fact when I visited the warehouses where they store cocoa, they were far from airtight-they were practically open to most of the elements(NJ and Philadelphia ports).
Benvt- if you let CO2 gas into the room, why would you not want to occasionally vent it out? I'm also trying to decide how to finish our storage room as well-it's what we work on when it gets hot!
Jo
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Post by Brad on Sept 6, 2009 23:50:30 GMT -5
I just had an idea:
Purchase or rent a new sea can, put the cocoa in it, block off the 4 vents, and release CO2 into that.
Sea cans are cheap like borscht, and new ones have VERY good seals. (It's actually difficult to close the doors due to the rubber seals).
This would also be a great place to store the beans during the winter.
Sebastian, what temperature do you think the interior would have to get down to in order for the moths/eggs/larvae to be killed? In the winter here in Calgary the temperature is often a consistent -15 celsius.
Brad.
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