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Post by Sebastian on Sept 7, 2009 5:43:33 GMT -5
to kill the eggs? no idea, gonna need to find an entemologist for that one. i'd say if -15 C doesn't do it, it ain't gonna happen 8) It may have as much to do with the RH as the temp, but i'm really not a bug guy, so don't quote me on that one...
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Post by Alchemist on Sept 7, 2009 10:31:14 GMT -5
I agree with Sebastian. Keep in mind the native conditions of cocoa moths. Tropical. I would wager any freezing or even near freezing would do the trick.
A couple things to keep in mind while treating for moths. One is just that - you are treating the beans. These are not permanent storage conditions. I would not keep cocoa seal tight all the time. At least at a high RH. On the other side, stored at a low RH is a different story. I have been experimenting to a slight degree with desiccants. Drier I find is much better than damp.
Also, as a 'full plan', the eggs and the life cycle of the moths is why I treat on a regular basis. Basically I don't worry about the eggs. I treat for moths and larvae, wait a month and treat again. At that point, any new larvae would be killed, not become moths and effectively the life cycle is broken, and that is all you need. I usually keep up for 3-4 month and then stop. Partly because a given lot of beans is gone by that point, but so far, experience has shown that takes care of full life cycle issues as long as you don't re-infest.
A few other rambling points. I and you really don't want beans with gross contamination. Obvious I guess. I am talking about very low presence. Ben has a particular problem because the life cycle got out of control. Full cleaning, keeping the current stock isolated and treated, and trying to actively break that life cycle is what is needed.
Josh - pallet wrapping - I have thought about that but never came up with a good way to get the bottom well with a forklift. And it is amazing how much oxygen will still get in. I use and think open barrels or rooms with dry ice or compress gas because that actively displaces the oxygen - it does not just cut off the supply.
I can't prove I am right except to demonstrate that way back at the beginning I had moth issues. Doing what I do has given me no further problems. Ben's beans came direct from a warehouse without my treatment. Last year there was a Madagascar batch that got by me and I pulled it out of stock. It was very webby but nothing was alive.
This points out a bit of information I need to put together for larger quantity buyers.
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Post by holycacao on Sept 7, 2009 13:12:19 GMT -5
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Post by eric101 on Oct 29, 2009 15:43:51 GMT -5
FWIW, I had a bad infestation (had 4 bags of Dominican Republic Organic beans). I double baged them in garbage bags then froze them for three days then took them out and kept them sealed. No moths and the remaining beans are still good (a couple years later) although aging.
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Post by benvt on Jun 4, 2010 17:52:35 GMT -5
I thought we got rid of our moths but there was an army waiting to be hatched when the weather got warmer. On the bright side we may have found a way to get rid of them. Revenge moth traps have sticky paper with a disc of moth pheromones. They attract the males and trap them to break the breeding cycle. So far our traps have been filled with larger white moths while smaller darker moths are left mateless flying around. We haven't found any grubs at all. I'll update at the end of summer on whether or not it fully worked.
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Post by doclogic77 on Jun 4, 2010 19:29:51 GMT -5
FWIW, I had a bad infestation (had 4 bags of Dominican Republic Organic beans). I double baged them in garbage bags then froze them for three days then took them out and kept them sealed. No moths and the remaining beans are still good (a couple years later) although aging. We do this often with cigars. Tobacco beatles can destroy enormous amounts of money if you have a valuable collection. We freeze the cigars for three days...double bagged. The at frig temp for a day then room temp. Does the trick. I have no idea its the same for these moths but considering your experience I would say that it's strong evidence that it works for them as well.
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Post by beanless on Jun 11, 2010 20:45:47 GMT -5
I had a hatching in some madagascar beans recently after storing them too warm. I gassed them with CO2 every 2 days for 2 weeks and moved them into a cooler 12 degC store and have had no further hatchings. I will continue to gas every 2nd month as per John's advice, I am lucky to be able to store my beans at a winery where I have temp and humidity control and access to CO2.
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Post by Sebastian on Jun 11, 2010 21:35:53 GMT -5
absolutely no idea. very cold i'd think. where i grew up it was -40C in the winter, and we still had bugs every spring
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Post by apgravelle on Jul 3, 2013 8:11:43 GMT -5
Hello, I am a new user here and new to chocolate. I have received a batch of cacao beans with moths. I realize this post is years old but hopefully it is still active.
I want to try the dry ice to solve the problem but wasn't completely sure how to go about it. Can I use clean unused garbage cans or does the container need to be airtight. Do you simply place a block of dry ice into the container and close the lid.
Grateful for any help,
Andy
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Post by shrey on Jul 6, 2013 7:37:34 GMT -5
Hi,
Cocoa Beans are infested before arrival at the factory, this infestation commencing on the plantation and increasing during the various stages of transit to the factory.
If you want to preserve or recover your Cocoa Beans then you must follow this things. 1.Breeding and Pupation 2.Removal of all waste Cocoa/Totally Damaged Cocoa 3.Constant Sweeping 4.Frequent Whitewashing 5.Distempering 6.Store Cocoa Beans in temperature of 60° C.–65° C. For a time dependent on quantity of beans.
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Post by Sebastian on Jul 6, 2013 9:08:39 GMT -5
Andy - CO2 is heavier than O2, so it'll displace it. Meaning you don't NEED an airtight canister, but it'd sure help. If you can displace all the air and keep it out, your moths won't hatch. The best thing to do is simply store it in cold storage. H owever, if that's not possible, perhaps consider your dry ice in a can approach, and after the dry ice has finished sublimating, tape the can to seal it? Don't tape it while it's sublimating for risk of pressure build up - i'd hate for you to build the first cocoa bomb!
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Post by apgravelle on Jul 6, 2013 12:03:57 GMT -5
Hello, thank you for your quick responses. I'm going to go the dry ice route as soon as I can get my hands on some. I assume I need to go through the beans first and pull out the worst of them. I've moved them to the cellar where it is much cooler. Looking forward to being moth free.
Cheers Andy
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Post by ericp on Jul 11, 2013 1:44:49 GMT -5
I recently bought a bunch of the Grainpro bags that someone recommended earlier in this thread -easy since the company is a few towns away. I noticed that a bag of Bolivian cacao I'd bought from John came "double bagged" in one (jute bag had an inner, sealed Grainpro bag in it). I think they were 2$ each.
They're available in large sizes that can hold an entire bag of cacao - though I bought smaller 50 lb ones so I could minimize digging into the entire bag each time I needed to use some. They also come with a heavy-duty zip-lock option. It made fumigating my beans really easy - transferred the cacao to the bags, placed a chunk of dry ice on top of paper towels in each bag, & zip-locked the things up, leaving about an inch un-zipped until the ice had melted.
The Grainpro rep had told me that the dry ice shouldn't be necessary because the whole idea with the bags is that they have some special material that blocks oxygen in particular (much more so than a poly bag would) & that if you hermetically seal them with the zip-lock the bugs will basically smother themselves over time. I didn't want to wait for nature to take it course, plus I love an excuse to play with dry ice. Also just couldn't imagine those little bugs actually breathing enough to use up all that oxygen.
I did note that there was no tangible advantage over poly in their literature as far as vapor permeability goes, so not exactly the holy grail for moving my cacao into a damp basement.
Anyway, thought I'd toss that out there. Hopefully I won't be following up next year with a comment about what a bad idea this was.
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Post by Sebastian on Jul 11, 2013 19:15:50 GMT -5
Don't believe the sales guy. He may sell very nice bags, but if used alone, you'll still have moths.
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Post by tsouke on Sept 4, 2013 19:42:34 GMT -5
I just got a half ton of beans this afternoon that have lots of worms coming out of the bags...no moths yet, but they will be here soon I am sure. Freezer storage for a month to kill them is what I am doing now, but then can I bring them back to the workshop and store them long term in those bags or will mold be an issue if they are airtight? Workshop is about 65F now and then cooler all winter. Anyone stored long term in grainpro bags? Can you store in the grainpro bags or will the beans get moldy?
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