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Post by beanless on Jul 17, 2009 15:35:51 GMT -5
itsallaroundyou - bean to bar producers well there may be a couple here, although I have had mixed messages as to whether they actually do make choc from the bean.
There is Shoc chocolate in Greytown and Patagonia Chocolate in Queenstown - where are you heading?
Choice here is limited so I have sent my partner on a chocolate shopping spree in the US this week and hopefully he gets some of Alans choc in San Fran - thanks for the info Alan.
After making my own (which is very amateur) and realising what flavours can be in chocolate I now seem to be disappointed in the bars I used to enjoy so much - not sure if this is a good thing as it is now hard to satisfy my choc addiction!!!
Sorry I meant to add there are a few chocolatiers probably worth a try though Devonport Chocolates in Auckland Bennetts of Mangawhai De Spa in Auckland Mamor in Auckland Makana in Kerikeri Van Heiningen in Christchurch
Cheers Ali
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Post by itsallaroundyou on Jul 21, 2009 11:58:42 GMT -5
Brad, thanks so much for the tips----during my last attempt (and in a few of the first attempts) the chocolate mass in the cooling stage turned prob 80-90% solid (i could baaaaarely stir it)......i bet that is the source of my problem (largely, if not completely). i didn't realize i'd need to start over if that happened, so, now i will re-approach and report back with my results.....
thanks again to everyone for helping me with this, and thanks for the NZ suggestions, Ali
-mike
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Post by itsallaroundyou on Sept 2, 2009 11:29:59 GMT -5
success! well, i think so.....i got back at it with my most recent batch of 70% dark, using the turbo tempering method (since i was in a rush and figured i might as well try it again). heated to about 110F, dropped it to mid 70s, then back up to baaaarely over 90. i just poured it all out onto a sheet and threw it in the fridge (its been really hot and humid here). i checked this morning and for the first time the air side of the chocolate has some gloss, and the bottom is nice and shiny with no swirls. since its been so hot here, i'm hesitant to take it out of the fridge. if it is indeed tempered, will it hold in 85F weather (i.e., is it safe to take out and store in a cupboard?) thanks again to all who contributed tips here....with my next batch i will try the hair drier method again, now that i see what has to happen (though i'm not so sure i'm skilled enough to hold the correct temp while molding---so this thread might not be over yet )
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Post by itsallaroundyou on Oct 24, 2009 23:25:01 GMT -5
well, as predicted, i'm not quite done with this thread..... why does the temp range need to be so precise for the final tempering stage, when in reality you only need to be between about 82--91F? for the upper and lower temps, what happens if i go over 120F or just down to 80F? i've tried to temper 3 different 70% (30% sugar) ghana batches for the last few weeks and can't seem to get a perfect temper like i did before with the ivory coast choc. i can always get nice snappy chocolate now (thanks to the tips in this thread), and now that i have some nice molds, its been pretty glossy, but have dense white streaks and swirls throughout (not just on the surface like humidity causes)--i've preheated my molds and my dispensing syringe, and stir like crazy, so i don't know what the source of these swirls is). my thermometer is off by a known amount, so that is accounted for too. in general for dark, i go for 120, 78, 90. i've tried varying the upper temp from 110-120, the lower temp from 74-80, and the final temp from 87-92, but after 5 more tries today, i'm at a loss. advice welcome cheers mike
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Post by itsallaroundyou on Nov 2, 2009 15:57:18 GMT -5
well, i think i might be homing on on my problem areas, but there isn't much info out there to help....
a few more questions/points:
in the cooling stage, should i get clumps? i always get clumps. I start to notice clumping in the low 80s. i've been using a water bath/ice bath method and notice that those clumps don't remelt for a long time (5-10) when i bring and hold the temp up at 90ish for molding. if i cool it very slowly, i think i can avoid clumps--is there such a thing as "too long" to cool it?
I have also noticed that when i'm at my final temp (89-90), i can maintain the temp for as long as i need, but the choc starts thickening while i'm stirring, and takes on a very slightly grainy sheen (as opposed to the nice glossy look melted choc normally has). is this from too much stirring?
lastly, my chocolate is very thick in general, when i watch videos of how to temper, the choc is always very fluid. i use a large 60-mL syringe to dispense into molds, and i have to pull about as hard as i can to suck any chocolate up. it seems like if it was this hard for every one, the syringe wouldn't be recommended.
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Post by holycacao on Nov 3, 2009 1:48:01 GMT -5
Your clumps during cooling are probably from the cold spots in the ice bath and inefficient stirring (meaning that some spots are not getting stirred). An immersion blender is good at breaking clumps small enough to melt back into the chocolate. If you hold the chocolate at 90 and it is too thick - it might be overtempered- which you can either melt carefully with a heat gun, or add warmer untempered melted chocolate to it. If at 89-90 the chocolate thickens up you should heat it gently by 1-4 degrees. The longer you work with tempered chocolate, the more you will need to heat it. Once in temper I generally raise the temperature after working with the chocolate every 15-30 min depending on how it feels.
Stirring by hand does two things- it distributes temperature- in your case cooling, and it produces shear. The particles in the chocolate mass hit one and other and the cocoa butter crystals that are being formed are coming into contact with uncrystalized cocoa butter. If you have "good" crystals in the chocolate stirring will produce more crystals. Once a critical mass of stable crystals is in the liquid chocolate, additional stirring is going to over temper the chocolate and set it up. When working with a metal bowl/small melter without an agitator, it's unlikely that you would over temper the chocolate (unless you use seed). The stirring is attempting to keep the temp the same throughout the mass. If you see chocolate setting up on the sides of the bowl, don't stir it into the chocolate. Either melt with heat or leave it-your just adding more crystals to a tempered chocolate. In the beginning you will see that it is easier to get in temper, and stay in temper by using larger amounts of chocolate. Re: the savage tanks- it's crucial that you learn what tempered chocolate looks like and feels like before using the savage tanks. They can't temper for you-they can melt chocolate but you have to temper it. Even though this all might sound confusing, it really isn't and once you get it, it's like riding a bicycle. Hope that helps. Jo
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Post by itsallaroundyou on Nov 3, 2009 10:11:09 GMT -5
thanks for the clarification. fortunately i won't be able to make enough chocolate to use the savage tanks for a long while, and if i can't temper by hand by then, then i shouldn't be scaling up.
i read an article from the american chemical society that talked about holding the final temp at about 86F (for dark choc) for a few minutes before going up and holding at the final temp---i've read lots of tempering tips, but have never seen that one (they also talked about only going down to around 82, as opposed to 80 or lower).
thanks again for the tips!
-mike
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Post by Brad on Nov 3, 2009 11:25:37 GMT -5
Mike
When I was learning to temper chocolate I read a lot of misinformation about tempering chocolate. As a result, tempering was the bane of my existence for almost 2 years.
It took me actually visiting a very experienced chocolatier and having him show me what to look for when tempering chocolate.
We now successfully manually temper 100's of pounds of chocolate every day, and here are the NON NEGOTIABLE rules my staff have learned to work with for perfectly tempered chocolate: 1. Melting temperature is to be between 115 and 120 degrees F 2. Dark Chocolate must be cooled to 79 degrees F. 3. Milk Chocolate must be cooled to 78 degrees F. 4. Dark Chocolate is reheated to 92 degrees F. 5. Milk Chocolate is reheated to 90 degrees F. 6. These are exact temperatures. You can't be out one degree, meaning "Oh... The Chocolate has reached 80 degrees. That should be close enough." "Close enough" might work with other things in the kitchen but doesn't cut it when working with chocolate. 6. Don't for one minute think you can "hurry" the process up. Tempering chocolate takes time.
STIR STIR STIR STIR STIR STIR STIR AT ALL TIMES.
When you think you've stirred enough.... Stir some more.
STIR STIR STIR STIR STIR STIR STIR AT ALL TIMES.
The rules are set by the crystalization properties of the cocoa butter and not me, you, or anyone else. It's nothing personal. It is what it is.
Pay heed to Holy Cocoa's advice about chocolate thickening, and working with the temperature slightly to thin it out.
Happy tempering.
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Post by itsallaroundyou on Nov 3, 2009 11:54:56 GMT -5
brad, thanks again. when this thread started, i went by your guidelines for dark, since your advice has helped me in the past. i did find that when i got to 79F my chocolate was just about unworkable, and in my head, i kept thinking "this can't be the consistency that a tempering machine works with" i'm talking borderline solid, clumpy.....one of my goals when i try tonight is to bring the temp down slow enough to not get the clumpy consistency. i'm a very visual learner, and if i could see an expert in action, i would really benefit from it. and trust me, if my sore left shoulder is any indicator, i'm stirring enough ok, so, i think i'm well equipped for tonight's attempt, so i will report back (again) with my results.....i have a good feeling this time....
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Post by Brad on Nov 3, 2009 16:43:10 GMT -5
Make sure your thermometer is properly calibrated. When you get to that bottom temperature, the dark chocolate should be very thick, and begin to solidify on the sides of the bowl. If it's to the point where you're working with "clay-like" consistency, then don't take the chocolate down so low next time. Increase your bottom temperature by one degree at a time, while keeping in mind that if your thermometer is out at the bottom temp, it will most likely be out at your working temperature as well, so you will have to adjust accordingly.
I calibrate my thermometers using boiling water. Just keep in mind that for every 1000 feet you are above sea level, your water will boil at 1.5 degrees Celsius lower. Here in Calgary we're at 3000 feet, so the boiling point of our water is 95.5 degrees.
Hope this helps.
Brad
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Post by itsallaroundyou on Nov 3, 2009 17:34:58 GMT -5
thanks again....fortunately i'm pretty much at sea level, and i work in a lab where i can get pure water to test the calibration, so i will do that before even starting.
now if i could only leave work to work on tempering!
only 3 hours to go.....
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Post by itsallaroundyou on Nov 3, 2009 22:07:11 GMT -5
well the results are in... i slowed everything down, and really got a good handle on dropping the temp (virtually no clumping, all the way down to 80F). for the first time too, when i heated, i maintained the heat around 86-87F for a few minutes, then up to 90F and held it between 89-90F for molding. since i slowed everything down and actually had time to think, i pulled out a spoonful when i had hit 90F and threw it in the fridge---it came out beautifully tempered (by my standards) --shiny, no swirls, nice snap. i proceeded to mold up the remaining 2 lbs with a syringe, and most have set with a hazy complexion, some with actual white swirls (same as before) this seems point to my dispensing and cooling as the culprit. i preheated the molds and the syringe. will try again tomorrow with a ladle (thanks for the idea andrea ) and see what happens..... thanks for the continued support, i'm getting a little closer each day -mike
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Post by Brad on Nov 4, 2009 0:00:11 GMT -5
Mike;
Lose the syringe. The chocolate isn't being stirred while in the syringe, and to be honest, that way of molding chocolate is a PITA.
If you are intent on using that method, then go to a restaraunt supply store and buy the clear plastic ketchup and mustard dispensers. They hold up to a litre, and are very soft an maleable, which allows you to fill them up about 3/4 full, and then tip them back and forth (hence stirring the chocolate) while pouring it into your molds. You can also trim the tips to dispense larger volumes of chocolate.
We have 3g sample callets in our shop that I mold and I use this method when we run low. It works great!
Furthermore, don't preheat the molds! If your room temperature is around 65 degrees F, your molds work best at room temperature. Think about your test spoon.... You didn't heat that did you? It turned out perfectly because it was cooled fast enough that the chocolate didn't remain in the "temperature danger zone" long enough for the wrong crystals to form. Heating your molds will ensure the chocolate in fact stays in that danger zone long enough to cause surface bloom - which is exactly what you're getting. If you take a close look at a cross section of your bloomed pieces, I'll bet $$ that the exterior touching the mold has bloom, but a little bit further into the piece, the chocolate is tempered just fine.
Just don't have your molds so cold that they "shock" the chocolate when it's initially poured in.
Hope that helps.
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Post by itsallaroundyou on Nov 4, 2009 10:08:12 GMT -5
brad, that's funny you mention the spoon....i had the same thought while i was cleaning up my dishes...i also didn't preheat the piece of tin foil i plopped the glob onto.
actually, because i ran out of mold space, i spread the rest of the chocolate out on to a cookie (also not preheated) and popped it in the fridge----when it was set up, it wasn't tempered totally perfectly, but it was pretty my my close!
glad to be honing in on the real problems after so many tries...thanks again for the tips and support
-mike
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Post by Brad on Nov 4, 2009 20:17:12 GMT -5
Ok....
So I was in the mood to play around today. I went into the shop and threw all of our bar molds in the fridge 15 minutes before I was to begin molding up 250+ Ocumare 70% darks.
Our bar molds are thick, commercial grade polycarbonate, and have a lot of detail throughout. I've had trouble in the past with bloom in the very center of the bar where the chocolate touches the plastic longest.
I brought the molds out of the fridge 4 at a time, poured the chocolate in them, and stuck them promptly back in the fridge. They are the shiniest and nicest bars we've yet to produce!
The molds weren't so cold that they shocked the chocolate, but cold enough to take the entire surface past the "temperature danger zone".
Furthermore, the bars set much quicker - literally in 1/2 the time it normally takes for the chocolate to set once they're put in the fridge.
I guess sometimes helping other people helps me too! I like that!
Thanks Mike!
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