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Post by sugaralchemy on Feb 27, 2006 23:04:19 GMT -5
I've got a few small projects in mind where I need to get a very consistent, reliable tempering without adding any seed crystals of tempered chocolate. It seems it would be very logical to have a tempering machine for this purpose. However, from what I can tell, tempering machines typically cost in excess of $300 just for a small, home model.
I'm curious if anybody has suggestions for more reasonably priced tempering machines. I'm not trying to skimp here, and I'll bite the bullet if need be, but I'm just surprised to see prices this high for non-commercial home products. Perhaps the rarity of these items makes the prices higher? I'm just asking here if I have possibly missed anything that is obvious to you guys...
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Post by krzysiastevens on Feb 28, 2006 3:30:18 GMT -5
I live in the UK and have just bought a table top tempering machine (which, by the way, has revolutionised the way I make chocolates!) I bought it through a UK based company called Vantage House (who have lots of good tips on their web site too) and it was shipped from the US and cost me 400 pounds. I couldn't find a cheaper one anywhere.
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Post by sugaralchemy on Feb 28, 2006 5:39:28 GMT -5
As of this moment, GBP£400 = USD$696, and I think the dollar has been weak recently. More currency conversion can be found here: xe.net/ Now I'm going to go over some of the models I've been seeing, with prices in USD and other units in our backward system I would welcome any comments regarding the suitability of these machines, or your experiences. It seems that the market only has two contenders for the home tempering market. Chocovision Revolation1 $359 A smaller, plastic cased 1.5 lb capacity chocolate tempering machine, handles as little as 4 oz of chocolate at a time. Does not look at sturdy as it could be, but probably decent. Complete manual available. Does specify in that manual that a seed crystal should be added - and that's not something I'm too crazy about* - is this standard for small tempering machines? Digital controls, but no display, no direct temperature control, just "modes" and "steps" - I don't know if this is a good thing. Take a look at it here: www.chocovision.com/choco/site/revolation_spec.htmThe manual: www.chocovision.com/choco/fls/rev1manual.pdfChocovision Revolation2 $429 Same capacity as the Revolation1, but solid metal construction, more precise controls. Shows temperature, heats up to 130° F. Still calls for a seed crystal, which I don't like*. See it here: www.chocovision.com/choco/site/revolation2_spec.htmThe manual: www.chocovision.com/choco/fls/rev2manual.pdfIt's a little unclear to me precisely how the controls work on the Revolation2 machine, though it seems roughly along the lines of what I'd want. (And yes it's very late... so I'm probably not comprehending fully.) Does anybody have experience with it, and how it handles working without a seed crystal of chocolate? *I have some certain special applications where I can't use other chocolate as a seed crystal. It's a long story, just trust me.
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Post by Alan on Feb 28, 2006 9:46:38 GMT -5
Dear all,
John just mentioned having used the Santha in order to temper. He hasn't yet given the details, but I imagine that it involves removing the cap that adds downward pressure to the granite rollers so that instead of creating friction and heat, they simply mix. After maybe 30 minutes I would imagine that the temperature would reach the appropriate low, and then the chocolate coule be reheated a bit to decrease viscosity if one wants by adding the cap back on, and then upon removing the rollers, the chocolate could then be removed directly from the santha for molding.
Keep in mind that I haven't actually tried this, so I hope that John can confirm this process, but basicall if it works, then you can have a refiner/concher/temperer that holds up to about 10 lbs of chocolate, all for only about $260 (iirc).
As I said, hopefully John will add his thoughts here.
Sincerely,
Alan
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Post by Alchemist on Feb 28, 2006 13:09:23 GMT -5
Yes, that is basically it. Although I took and even more hands off approach. This is what I did: I think I am going to start referring to this as the Zen method of tempering - it is all a matter of "balance". Once my refining was complete, I took off the top nut and as Alan said, this then just stirs the chocolate. The rollers just choco-plane ;D over the bottom plate. From past experience, I know the Santha equilibrates at about 110 F. I removed about 1/3 of the chocolate (hint, the scales I now offer will handle the weight of the Santha drum and roller, so I poured until I was down 1/3 the weight of the chocolate) and poured it onto a large plate. I turned off the Santha and let the 2/3's start to cool (target about 100 F). This is where I buck tradition (but for a reason I will try and remember to explain). I simply put the 1/3 portion in the oven (for insulation) to start "crystallizing". I did stir it for about a minute every 10 minutes or so, but I did not continuously stir and agitate it. During this 1 minute stir, I also ran the santha again just to stir and temperature distribute. Remember, (if you did not know) I am a chemist and I have grown my fair share of crystals, and the best ones I found are the hands off ones. So I thought, set it there, stir it a little for temperature distribution, but leave it alone. After 30 minutes, the 1/3 was about 83-85 F, and very thick. I added it to the 2/3 portion in the running santha. As soon as it was incorporated (about 30 seconds - just enough to incorporate but not add air) I stopped and checked my temperature - 90 F. Right on target. I molded up direct from the santha (using my 60 cc syringe). I rapped the molds on the counter as normal and did not notice any greater amount of air coming to the surface than normal - maybe even less. The chocolate had a GREAT gloss and snap. So far I have tried this three times with two milks and a dark and all have been perfect. Oh, and I will pass on the results of a quick "crystallization" experiment. With one batch, I molded up identical mold and left one to set on the counter (slow cooling, lots of time to crystallize) and one went into the refrigerator (short hard cooling). Hands down the winner was the slow cooled one. The fast cooled one did not temper - no gloss, no snap, melted as soon as I touched it. OTOH, refrigerating SLOW cooled chocolate for 1/2 hour before unmolding made unmolding go a bit easier. Finally, 1/2 of one batch, I rubbed the molds with cocoa butter, 1/2 I just "polished" - no noticeable difference. Questions? Questions? Bueller? Questions?
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Post by sugaralchemy on Feb 28, 2006 15:49:25 GMT -5
Well... that is really interesting, and a great way to temper a large amount of chocolate. However, I still am looking for information about how I could have a consistent, reliable, automated tempering process performed by a machine.
Anybody?
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Post by Brad on Mar 2, 2006 6:36:25 GMT -5
Report in on my new chocovision:
I read in another forum that when one opens the box for the first time it will be time to ponder their sanity in paying what they do for a chocovision. However the money's worth it.
It tempers my chocolate perfectly every time, and has two settings - one for hard to temper chocolate and one for regular chocolate. It also has preset settings for white, milk, and dark chocolate. I've used them all except for the white, and have not used any seed chocolate.
Aside from the fact that it will only temper about 2lb of chocolate at a time, the process of warming, cooling and rewarming takes only 30 minutes per batch, and will hold the temperature perfectly for as long as you want to play with the chocolate.
In the last week, I've pushed a couple of buttons and tempered 12lb of chocolate while not touching a thermometer once. The relatively short tempering time allows me to pop into my office and answer emails, then it's back to molding, enrobing, or just plain eating spoonfuls of my yummy creations! It is the perfect size for a home-based chocolatier.
Another nice feature is that I can leave it running if I have to go to the store, or run errands. It will continue to stir the chocolate at a constant rate and keep the chocolate at a consistent temperature, so it's ready when I get back from my errands.
I guess the only question is how it will hold up to steady use. I'll keep you all posted.
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Post by sugaralchemy on Mar 2, 2006 7:06:27 GMT -5
Brad,
I completely understand the benefits of a tempering machine. They are like magic! The only question, especially for home use (no ROIs you can calculate!), is cost. You can temper manually... but the results tend to vary, at least a little bit. Tempering manually without a seed crystal is even trickier. None of it is impossible... but perhaps a bit of work. A tempering machine just solves all those problems so easily, and it affords you incredible flexibility for you to work with the fully tempered melted chocolate.
You say that you've been using the chocovision without any seed crystals. Which model? Has it tempered the chocolate properly in the normal amount of time, or taken longer than advertised? Do you have plans to try it with any seed chocolate - I would be really interested if you tried it both with and without a seed crystal and compared the results, to confirm the quality.
I have contacted Chocovision via phone and email - they were very friendly and as helpful as possible, but the concept of tempering chocolate without a seed crystal left them scratching their heads. They are going to get back to me regarding this issue. I'll post whatever sort of a reply that I get back from them. Brad feels like it is non-issue, but I would still be interested to get their official stance on it all.
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Post by sugaralchemy on Mar 2, 2006 15:57:14 GMT -5
I spoke at some length with the chocolate consultant that works for Chocovision and got a good amount of information from them. He said that tempering without a seed crystal does not give optimal results, tends to vary in terms of results, and the bottom line is that it isn't acceptable for serious chocolate tempering. He was pretty clear on that point. He suggested I look into this product, which is superb for tempering chocolate without adding anything except a very tiny amount of cocoa butter: www.callebaut.com/html_en/?item_id=25002Brad, I would be very interested if you would try tempering the same batch of chocolate both without a seed crystal and with a seed crystal and carefully compare the results. The guy I spoke to was pretty clear about it, and I do wonder if you're getting results that are perfectly tempered. (Of course, if you are and can confirm the results are great, I'd love to follow up with that guy and see what he has to say. I could even forward you his contact information if you like.)
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Post by Brad on Mar 2, 2006 21:55:51 GMT -5
Before I bought the Chocovision REV2 I looked into it extensively, and found on a couple of other forums that people were in fact tempering without the seed chocolate. During the tempering cycle, it melts the chocolate you want to work with, then beeps to add the seed chocolate and choose the tempering mode (regular or hard to temper), and then beeps again when it's time to remove any excess seed.
What I've done is fill it full of untempered chocolate, ignore the beep telling me to add the seed, chosen the "hard to temper" mode, and then ignore the beep telling me to remove the seed. The machine is temperature driven, so regardless of the beeps, it still raises, lowers and then raises the temperature again. In the "hard to temper" mode, it lowers the temperature 3 degrees below "regular" mode.
It works perfectly! There was even a batch of chocolate I thought I had ruined and was discussing in length with Alan, as I thought it was the cocoa butter. I did pretty much everything to that batch that I shouldn't have done. I shocked it, over heated it, froze it, and in general spent 20 hours completely abusing it with temperature extremes. It tempered perfectly as well the first time around. Aside from the cheesy plastic paddle that holds the thermometer, I would recommend it without question to any home chocolate maker.
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Post by Brad on Mar 2, 2006 22:00:34 GMT -5
Here is the post from the other forum. I bookmarked it knowing that I was not going to have any seed to work with, and didn't want to adulterate my own chocolate with someone elses.
Hello all, Some more notes on the tempering machines. It was a great help to read all posts in this forum, so thanks to all. I have finally decided to go with the Revolation II after checking the different options as suggested in this forum. I ordered it yesterday from Vantage House in the UK and it arrived today (the next day!) They got them in stock and the owner of the company is probably one of the best in the UK on chocolate machines. Well worth picking his brains on what you need as he is very helpful as well. Here are some notes on the machine after trying it tonight. To start with it was indeed a temper machine - I could not get it to temper and my own temper was running very low. The manual is rather thin and implies that it is all very simple.... after a few batches of trying different ways, I suggest the following: 1. do NOT start with pre-melted chocolate. 2. start with rather large broken pieces. 3. when up to temperature just add 100g of more pieces behind the baffle and press the 2nd option temper programme (difficult seeding chocolate). 4. make a cup of tea. 5. when the system tells you to remove seeding chocolate, leave it in. 6. when the machine says it is ready, it is! (do the standard tip of knife in the fridge for two mins just to make sure). 7. very simple when you know. 8. when trying to start with pre-melted chocolate, it does not help to bring the temperature all the way down to 26.6C, it still does not temper. 9. all the tests were done using El-Rey Milk chocolate.
Points to note: it is small. very small indeed. Given that with VAT and a few extra bowls you pay in the UK £500, you ponder your sanity for a few moments when you open the box. The amount of chocolate you can safely work with is no more than say 800g. Great for the work surface space but not sure for production use. It does not seem to be possible to use the machine as a bain marie once tempered as the baffle has to be in the pot because the temperature sensor sits in the baffle. This might be an issue for some as the bowl is very small and divided in half by the baffle and all the tempered chocolate collects in the front half when the bowl is spinning. I have yet to try to dip Pralines or Truffles with the bowl spinning. How do people generally use this machine for Pralines and Truffles? I normally dip Pralines with fork and coat the Truffles by finger dipping. Thanks and regards Per Norrgren.
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Post by krzysiastevens on Mar 3, 2006 15:58:26 GMT -5
I love my chocovision rev 2 machine, I can guarantee every batch of chocolates I do, weather enrobed or moulded, will have a glossy shine, which has saved me loads of time and money as I'm not wasting loads with crappy finishes (and not having to eat all the ones that don't work!). However, it has just broken! It gets up to temper and then cuts out and smoke is coming from the motor housing. So I turn it off, of course. Then try again a bit later, because obviously while it's been turned off it's been mending its little self. But, same thing and more smoke! I am not a happy bunny, daughter's 3rd birthday part tomorrow and no tequila and chili truffles to offer the mums!!! I always thought it looked a little flakey.
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Post by sugaralchemy on Mar 6, 2006 10:34:10 GMT -5
I wouldn't declare a tempering machine completely flaky because one model has broken... I also suspect the manufacturer will tend to the problem. My discussions with them have been very informative and professional, and I believe they stand behind their products. I agree that the size of the chocovision seems... a bit on the small size... and not as versatile as it could be. Take a look at the Caloribac Chocolate Tempering Machine, while not nearly as automatic, it may be of significant value: kerekesequip.com/a/chocolate-machine--3599.htm(Other places have a lower price, but that place has the best picture/description.) The price is in the same range, but it has no "automatic" mode or stirring mechanism. It is unclear to me how tight the temperature control is... but the implication is that it's tight enough to be used for tempering. 77-194° F is a pretty large range, opening up a whole lot of interesting possibilities - I bet I could even use this with my heavy duty kitchenaid, to stir the melting chocolate, or for any number of other applications and projects. And this baby's big - 3.5 quarts! That means it should have no problems dealing with multiple batches from the santha at the same time, or a very large amount of commercially produced chocolate. (Well, relative to the home chocolate maker...) I have had no luck tracking down the company who makes it. Anybody have experience with it? I'm concerned it might not handle a small amount of chocolate very well, and it is unclear the exact level of temperature control.
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Post by krzysiastevens on Mar 18, 2006 6:31:48 GMT -5
I spoke to the people I bought the machine from and they will replace all the non-working bits for me.
My machine left me at a critical point in our relationship.
I was angry.
I didn't mean what I said, it was great, I miss it...
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Post by Brad on Mar 18, 2006 13:35:40 GMT -5
With regard to the caloribac, there are a number of reasons I went away from my deep dish electric frypan method (which works on the same premise as the caloribac). They are as follows:
1. Instrumental in tempering and maintaining temper is stirring not only the contents, but also removing the chocolate from the side of the machine where the heat is applied. In a machine where chocolate is NOT removed from the side, you will inevitably have untempered chocolate, and quite a bit of it for that matter. 2. Dealing with temperature again, every quality chocolate heating and tempering machine I've seen has the thermometer inserted right in the middle of the chocolate. Temperature MUST be precise, and the only way to ensure precision is taken in the middle of the mass, while the mass is being stirred. (Think about baking a cake for a second. You don't stick the toothpick in the side of the cake to check for doneness. You stick it right in the middle. The same principle applies here. ALso, when you think about it, the cake is a very good analogy to use when dealing with heating chocolate in a machine that doesn't stir - you get an extensive amount of heat on the outside edge, but none in the middle. This produces and undesireable amount.)
Stirring is important. Removal of chocolate from the side of the machine is important. Even temperature distribution is important.
On top of that, the machine is a glorified baine-marie. For the $350 it costs, and the work it DOESN'T save, I can buy a $40 deep dish electric frying pan for that matter! When you look at it, they do exactly the same thing!
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