Jim B.
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Post by Jim B. on Oct 1, 2019 18:01:00 GMT -5
I was wondering if anyone has tried supplementing the sweetness (or lack of!) by adding pure Monk Fruit Extract. It seems it wouldn't take much, maybe about 3 grams to a pound of Allulose to get about the same sweetness as sugar. Any thoughts?
-JimBo
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Jim B.
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Post by Jim B. on Oct 13, 2019 16:22:05 GMT -5
Just following up on my own post. I mixed 98% Allulose and 2% Monk Fruit as a (hopefully) 1:1 sugar substitute. It was way too sweet. Probably by about 5 times as much. To my taste (at that strength) it had the typical artificial sweetener taste and aftertaste. (It made me wonder if someone switched the product with "artificial monk fruit"!)
So,... please don't follow my earlier post for a ratio of how much to use. The problem is complicated by the fact that one place tells you to use 1/4 teaspoon instead of 1 or 2 teaspoons of sugar (making it 4-8 times as sweet), while most accounts are 150-200 times as sweet, or even 300-450 times. And that doesn't even account for whether it is 25%, 30%, or 50% mogrosides. So it's trial and error with a great deal of uncertainty as to repeatability.
If anyone has "been there, done that," I'd like to know if you've had any success in using something to increase the sweetness of allulose to a 1:1 sugar equivalent.
Thanks, Jim B
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Jim B.
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Post by Jim B. on Nov 18, 2019 8:07:17 GMT -5
Following up some more....
From what I can tell, the claims of Monk Fruit being 250-300 times as sweet as sugar are based on a 100% mogroside content. Many extracts are only 25%. That would match the one I bought that claims a 1/32 tsp of monk fruit is equal to 2 tsps of sugar (essentially 1:64, which is 256 times as sweet as sugar). I would expect that the 50% extracts would be twice as strong! (Duh!l I'm making a batch, now, using 1/2 tsp of monk fruit to 16 oz allulose. At 18 hours inthe melanger, it seems to be a good mix. I mixed the monk fruit in with the melted cocoa butter for better distribution in the mix. (It did change the opacity a bit!) I don't notice the aftertaste that was apparent in the earlier blend.
One other note.... I've increased the amount of cocoa butter when using allulose to about 40%. That has helped with tempering. It may not have to be that high, but even so, at 93-94°F the viscosity starts to be thick enough for my spatula to stand straight up (in a 2 qt measuring cup).
Anybody else have some experience to share that might help?
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Tyro777
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Post by Tyro777 on Nov 20, 2019 18:10:00 GMT -5
I'm not sure if I can really 'help' as I have yet to try making chocolate. Nevertheless I do have some experience with sugar substitutes and if I do manage to get my hands on a melanger and some nibs (and molds) to make chocolate I will most definitely be veering away from standard sugars, as I currently do when baking. (Yes, even coconut sugar, as delicious as it is.) Oftentimes it would seem that "less is more" when working with extremely potent sweeteners like stevia and Monk Fruit (pure extracts with no fillers, of course.) Adding these stronger sweeteners to your liquid ingredients (in this case, melted cocoa butter) definitely helps with getting the sweetener evenly distributed. I haven't used Allulose myself but I have tried Erythritol, and the similarity they share is that they are both about 70% as sweet as sugar. To get the sweetness level to be the same as sugar I generally use stevia instead of Monk Fruit. My only recommendation is, if you have time to try it; on a very very low heat (as low as you can make your stovetop go), constantly stir however much of your sweetener (the Allulose, not the Monk Fruit)you are using in a saucepan, until it just starts to brown. Then take it off the heat and set it aside and use as normal. This 'toasting' should help mask the aftertaste even more by giving you a richer, slightly less sweet but much more "caramel-like" flavor. Again, this works with Erythritol because it can caramelize like sugar. From what I've read, Allulose can do that as well. Give it a try if you have some to spare. Just don't forget to keep stirring it, as you don't want it to burn. If you want a less active way to do this you could try a very low heat in the oven, but you'd probably still want to stir it once every few minutes. I rarely do this for baking because the temperature will be going pretty high anyways, but I'd imagine it wouldn't hurt to try with something like chocolate, especially if you add your sugar or sugar substitutes in later rather than sooner. The caramelization of sugar substitutes is great fun to experiment with and I find that it always adds depth to the flavor profiles. Again, when you're baking, sugar and sugar substitutes will usually caramelize quite a bit on their own. So since you're making chocolate you might find it helps to kickstart this process on the sweetener. It might help, it might not. That's all I've got.
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Jim B.
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Post by Jim B. on Nov 20, 2019 18:55:18 GMT -5
Thanks Tyro, Allulose seems to be a terrific substitute for sugar. Not only will it caramelize, but it does not seem to have that "cooling effect" that erythritol has, nor is there any aftertaste that I can discern. Using it by itself to make chocolate has made an enjoyable product. It is in trying to get a 1:1 match (such as the erythritol blend "Swerve" and others). I'm sure you can appreciate the balancing act in trying to get the right amount of sweetness and still have the rest of the recipe work properly. My last batch using 1/2 tsp monk fruit to 1 lb of allulose seems to have worked well. Tempering seemed normal with good shine and "snap". I'm going to duplicate the recipe using sugar (for my non-diabetic wife and friends!) so they can make a direct comparison. By the way, I actually have trying to make some caramels using allulose in my radar! Thanks for the tips!
Jim B.
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Tyro777
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Post by Tyro777 on Nov 20, 2019 20:39:07 GMT -5
Nice! Glad that your latest batch worked out well! I definitely notice a more narrow window of success for balancing the flavor with sugar alternatives when I bake, so it makes me happy to hear you've found a good ratio! Swerve is a good blend but I find Lakanto's Monk Fruit + Erythritol cheaper and actually better tasting. But they're both more expensive than simply making my own blend, which I still haven't got around to doing. And again, I've only used alternative sweeteners in baking and beef jerky marinading so far. I will probably give allulose a shot if I get a chance to make chocolate. even though I've grown to like the "cold" mouthfeel of erythritol, especially when paired with ginger or mint. If you've made chocolate with erythritol, did you encounter any problems besides that classic "cooling effect"? I'm guessing stevia's aftertaste is the reason you don't use that, either? I figure that achieving a good smoothness after tempering would be an issue in making chocolate with erythritol on its own, because it tends to re-form into larger crystals when cooled. But then again I haven't even tempered regular sugar-sweetened chocolate. Either way I appreciate you detailing your adventures in alternatively-sweetened chocolate on here, as eventually I will probably end up using allulose as well, considering I'm the only person in the house that doesn't really mind the "chill" of erythritol! If you do try 'toasting' your allulose, or making caramel with it, I would be interested in knowing if you find any difference compared to unheated allulose. Also, if you don't mind me asking, what brand of Monk Fruit extract have you settled on? If some of them have varying levels of strength I imagine it'd save some trial-and-error to have one with the same mogroside content. Hopefully someone else with some experience in actually making chocolate with alternative sweeteners can offer more valuable information if you still need some advice. My only experience in chocolate making is through this website and the videos on the AlChemist's channel (which are both very good resources, but not quite the same as experiencing and experimenting with chocolate myself). Best of wishes! K.S.
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Jim B.
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Post by Jim B. on Nov 21, 2019 7:37:45 GMT -5
Tyro777 (K.S.), The monk fruit I'm currently using is SmartMonk 100% extract (25% mogroside), 30g bottle. I noticed a bitter aftertaste the first time, but I had far too much in the blend. After remelting the chocolate and adding some more cocoa butter and melted 100% baking chocolate, it was tolerable (if a little grainy). I made some "quick chocolate" with erythritol (see the Sugar-Free Diva website) which, despite not having the advantage of refining in the melanger, came out tasting alright - if you like really dark chocolate. The cooling effect was there but not really disturbing. The main problem with erythritol was a bit of gastric sensitivity which would limit my 'addiction.' Allulose doesn't seem to react with my gut (and actually helps lower my blood glucose level)! We're still using the Brown Sugar Swerve to 'candy' toasted pecans and in some other recipes. I'll take a look at the Lakanto blends. The melanger does heat the batch somewhat; I've typically seen around 120°F but sometimes higher depending on ambient temperature and recipe ingredients. I pre-warm the ingredients for about an hour in a 150°F oven, so I'm not sure any additional 'toasting' would help. By the way, the melanger should refine erythritol crystals down, and I don't think they would reform into larger crystals as this doesn't happen with sugar or other sweeteners - not that I've heard or read, anyway. I have read that using regular, granular sugar is better than using confectionery sugar - the granules help to grind the other ingredients even as they are reduced in particle size. I'll try to make the matching sugar blend within the next week, and I'll post my (well, my wife's) thoughts on the comparison here. Since I was diagnosed with diabetes last year, I have gone without many of the goodies that I previously enjoyed. I'd be interested in hearing about some of your recipes and baking experience with alternative sweeteners. (Though I expect this forum would not be the place for that!)
Thanks and blessings! Jim B
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Jim B.
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Post by Jim B. on Nov 29, 2019 6:58:30 GMT -5
Here is the result of my test with allulose and monk fruit compared to sugar. First, I used 1 lb. of allulose with 1/2 teaspoon of SmartMonk brand pure monk fruit extract (25% mogroside). The result was very close; the sugar batch was a touch sweeter. O.K., what to do differently? My calculation actually was for 0.51 tsp., so I was just under. Much of how sweet an alternative sweetener tastes is very subjective. That means a particular sweetener (monk fruit in this case) is "more or less" a reported number of times as sweet (or percentage of sweetness). This can vary between brands and, I supposed between different batch lots too. I might be tempted to add a touch more monk fruit but, for my taste, it's close enough. The only other consideration would be to find a different "balance" using more monk fruit and less allulose, but I'm not sure I want to risk changing the taste.
Jim B.
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Jim B.
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Post by Jim B. on Dec 31, 2019 14:09:11 GMT -5
Well, after some investigation I've figured out the problem with over-"Monk"-ing that first batch. The label read that a serving size was 1/32 of a teaspoon and that there were 240 servings in the container. 240÷32=7.5(tsp) per container. At 30 grams per container, that made each tsp equal to 4 grams. Using that as my basis, I calculated how much I would need to make up the 30% "sweetness deficit" when using allulose.
The problem is that the label is flat out WRONG! 4 grams is roughly the weight of sugar, not Monk Fruit. A teaspoon of SmartMonk (Smart138 brand v25% mogroside) weighed roughly 1.4 grams, not 4. That's 35% of the stated weight. Going by weight instead of volume, that meant I used about 2.85 times as much.
I changed my calculation to base the addition of Monk Fruit on volume alone using the stated strength of "64 times sweeter than sugar." What it comes down to is basically a touch more than 1/2 tsp (5.1 tsp) of (this brand's) Monk Fruit to 16 oz of allulose. Of course you can do a little +/- to suit your own taste. As for other brands or mogroside percentages, it will take more trial and error. For now, stick with the strength factor and work strictly with volume measurements.
To help with that, sugar is 200g (7.05 oz) per cup. There are 48 tsp to a cup.
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Jim B.
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Post by Jim B. on Dec 31, 2019 14:12:25 GMT -5
Oops... reading through that last post I noticed a misplaced decimal point. It should be obvious, but the "little more than 1/2 teaspoon" should be 0.51 tsp, not 5.1. Sorry about that!
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Post by Chip on Dec 31, 2019 17:25:35 GMT -5
jim B. What is the advantage of using monk fruit instead of just regular sugar?
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Jim B.
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Post by Jim B. on Dec 31, 2019 21:02:07 GMT -5
Chip, The idea is to use allulose instead of sugar. I'm diabetic (type 2, hyper-glycemic) and my digestive system cannot tolerate the sugar alcohol (maltitol, etc) based sugar-free options. Besides that, the taste is off. But allulose is only 70 percent as sweet as sugar. I can't simply add more without driving the balance of fat too low. The best option is to use a high potency sweetening alternative. Stevia is one possibility, but I've avoided it because of the bitter aftertaste. (That may not be an issue with the small amount needed.) Monk Fruit seemed to have the sweetening power without the aftertaste issues and could be used in small enough quantities so as not to add bulk to the recipe. By "goosing" the sweetening power of allulose with a touch of monk fruit, I can imitate standard sugar recipes. The people I have had do taste test could not tell that there was no sugar (sucrose) in the chocolate at all! Better yet, allulose helps lower my blood glucose levels. (I monitor my levels, but control my diabetes through diet and exercise - no pills or insulin.)
That was long-winded. Short answer: I can't have sugar and allulose is a great substitute (but a bit short of the sweetening ability).
Hope that helps clarify....
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Post by Chip on Jan 1, 2020 11:35:20 GMT -5
jim B. I am going to try this formulation. There are diabetics in my congregation that always tell me they would like to try my chocolate but can't because of the sugar. Thank you!!
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Jim B.
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Post by Jim B. on Jan 1, 2020 12:32:52 GMT -5
I hope that works for them as it does for me. Just make sure that the monk fruit is about 64x stronger than sugar. It should give some kind of conversion on the package. Mine also states v25% as the mogroside level. A v50% would be twice as strong!
And that was just a hint over 1/2 teaspoon per 1 pound of Allulose. My last batch was 20% (16 oz) nibs, 30% (24 oz) cocoa butter, 30% (24 oz) allulose (with 0.792 tsp monk fruit), 20% (16 oz) whole milk powder, and 0.80 oz soy lecithin powder. (The 0.792 tsp was 2/3 tsp and 1/8 tsp.) It was a little higher than my calculation of 0.765 tsp, but wasn't overly sweet and no apparent aftertaste. 24 hours in the Spectra with the lid off for the first 6 hours. Oh yeah, I mixed the lecithin in thoroughly with the melted cocoa butter and then added the monk fruit to that. I think it's a better way of making sure there are no "sweet spots" where the monk fruit didn't disperse well.
One other thing... Allulose can actually lower blood glucose. If any of your diabetics are hypoglycemic (low sugar) it might be an issue. That being said, I do experience lower glucose numbers but not dramatically. Everyone is different and should use caution at first! (In reading reviews on Amazon, some have stated their blood sugar spiked up with allulose. That could have been due to other factors as everything I've read indicates otherwise.)
Blessings!
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Post by Chip on Jan 1, 2020 12:38:25 GMT -5
jim b. Where did you source your monk fruit?
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