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Post by Chip on Sept 11, 2018 10:53:51 GMT -5
I took a break over the summer doing my hobby chocolates. I have always juiced my nibs through the Champion juicer. I have read on this forum a couple of times that just putting in raw nibs is "just as good."
When I got back from vacation I made a batch of 70% dark using "just nibs." Some of my molded product had "grit" in it. After looking at it under a magnifying glass I have determined that this grit is actually very small "nib" particles, most likely from the outer shell of the nib.
After this experience, I yesterday juiced another 6 kilograms of nibs and got at least 200 to 250 grams of really hard, gross, almost gravel like discharge. It is definitely detritus that I would not want in my chocolate.
Therefore, I think I am strongly coming down on the side of juicing the nibs before conching/refining.
Anyone else had this experience?
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Post by cacaosublime on Sept 11, 2018 12:41:06 GMT -5
Hi Chip,
When you say outer shell of the nib, that sounds like the shells that you need to get rid of during winnowing, but I suspect you mean a part of the nib itself that wasn't refined sufficiently? Otherwise it is a case of improving your winnowing effectiveness.
I always make batches with nibs, never have used the Champion to make liquor. When the melanger is running, I scrape in any chocolate that is building up on some places (for instance on the scraper, and on the bowl), to make sure it gets refined down as well. I do this maybe two-three times per batch. When I transfer the chocolate from the melanger into a beer jug (which I use for pouring), I put a sieve on top to hold any particles. The bars come out fine.
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Post by Chip on Sept 11, 2018 13:10:21 GMT -5
Hi! I did not sieve it at all. I do scrape the bowl a few times during grinding, but from there I use the large syringe and from the syringe directly into the molds. The nibs I use are finely winnowed, I rarely see any type of shell/outer coating or foreign material at all. I am pretty sure it is a part of the nibs themselves: some of the nibs have a very hard outer coating. Sometimes the Champion sounds like it is processing stones! LOL.
It is an extra step I take to ensure a smooth chocolate. I would sieve it if I didn't take that step, as you do. What type of sieve do you use or do you just use cheesecloth?
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Post by Ben on Sept 11, 2018 13:51:54 GMT -5
You can definitely make smooth chocolate using just a stone grinder. Running it through a champion first just gives it a jump start. For some (including me), the time and effort of that pre-grinding step aren't worth the time savings over putting nibs straight into the grinder. Having to run the grinder for a bit longer is a small price to pay for not having to deal with (and clean!) the champion. On a side note, are you saying that you mold straight from the grinder? No tempering?
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Post by Ben on Sept 11, 2018 13:54:21 GMT -5
Also, that hard discharge is certainly made up, in part at least, of the radicle of each cacao seed. The champion does remove this, which is one of its benefits, but it's not enough material to affect the flavor, and will be ground smooth by the stone grinder if left in.
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Post by Chip on Sept 11, 2018 14:07:04 GMT -5
Oh no, I do not go straight from the melange to the mold. I temper first. 99% of the time I use silk for tempering. I usually make a batch of silk once a month. I find making silk kind of therapeutic and easy. I wish I had taken a picture of the discharge. I'm sure there could be another explanation to the grittiness of that first post-vacation batch. But sometimes I am a little OCD and doing the juicing step just makes me feel like I am getting a better product. However, I do feel it adds a couple of more steps: not only the cleanup of the Champion, but once I juice and put it in a larger container, the liquor then hardens, which I then chop up into chunks and run through a food processor to make into small, "nib sized" particles, and that is what I put in the melange.
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Post by Ben on Sept 12, 2018 12:15:10 GMT -5
Interesting. Why do you let the liquor harden before putting it into the wet grinder? Why not put it in as a liquid or paste?
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Post by Chip on Sept 12, 2018 12:24:50 GMT -5
I don't use it right away. I usually set aside a day to just juice the nibs. Then the next day or even a few days later is when I will use the liquor, which by that time, has hardened.
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Post by Ben on Sept 12, 2018 13:19:50 GMT -5
Ah. That makes sense. Thanks.
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Post by mark on Sept 12, 2018 23:03:34 GMT -5
Chip, I have had the exact same experience. Like Ben, I'd like to save the Champion step, but I found that the resulting chocolate still had some grit. I'm assuming I could just run the melangeur for longer and I would eventually have smooth chocolate, but I'm concerned that extending the refining time might also have a negative impact on flavour.
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Post by cacaosublime on Sept 13, 2018 2:01:57 GMT -5
Hi Mark, Chip,
Maybe the sieve can help you out? You don't need to increase the time in the melanger, but you'll have a bit more loss. However, I assume the loss with using the Champion to create liquor will be bigger.
The other thing I think is that you'll have to be more gentle when starting up the melanger. Meaning preheat nibs, and put them in the melanger in small batches. Also preheat rollers. Don't know what you need to do when using liquor, but I can imagine that will be a bit quicker.
The sieve I use is bowl-shaped, and can rest on the edge on top of the beer jug while I empty the melanger in it. If you want I can try to make some pictures, but it really is a simple sieve
Are you sure the grit is chocolate and not maybe little parts of the stone rollers that broke off?
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Post by Ben on Sept 14, 2018 10:31:50 GMT -5
I'd suggest a sieve whether or not you pregrind. Since a wet grinder is an inherently random refining process, there will always be a bit of material that doesn't get refined a thoroughly as the rest (and some that will get over-refined, but a sieve won't help with that).
Also, I wouldn't be too concerned about running the chocolate in the grinder longer having a negative impact on the flavor. These little grinders don't do much conching as it is, so a little extra time isn't going to make a noticeable difference. You can also put the lid on the grinder, which will further limit any conching effects. Running with the lid on reduces the exchange of air from above the chocolate to the environment.
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Post by jasminepeak on Jan 2, 2022 5:20:36 GMT -5
I'm just starting started with chocolate making and investigating it. I believe I have a good grasp of the procedure. If I only bought a spectrometer and not the roasting/juicing/etc equipment, I could keep the entry expenses down. I could refine/conche chocolate liquor/unsweetened chocolate in my spectrum. I understand that I would be limiting myself in terms of quality and a lot of the process/work, but would this be a good way to get my feet wet in the process?
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Post by Ben on Jan 3, 2022 9:29:48 GMT -5
A pre-refining step helps reduce the overall time you need to refine in the stone grinder, but it is not required. Many makers make award-winning chocolate without a pre-refining step, so it doesn't necessarily limit the quality of the chocolate. You also don't need to limit yourself to making chocolate liquor if you don't want to. A stone grinder is capable of refining sweetened chocolate.
Are you planning to start with roasted nibs (since you mention not roasting)?
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Jim B.
Novice
Newbie
Posts: 118
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Post by Jim B. on Jan 5, 2022 13:55:22 GMT -5
I've had some grit issues myself. Can you guys share with me what you are using for a sieve? I'm a bit curious as the particles are quite small but seem hard enough to break a tooth if one were to chomp down on one! My concern is that, in making sugar-free chocolate (due to diabetes) with an allulose-erythritol mix, the batch always seems more viscous than what I would expect and I'm afraid it wouldn't pass through! My preference has been to make a "barely" milk chocolate with a touch of cream. I've raised the fat content to help with the fluidity to about 40%! Any help or suggestions (for the sieve)?
Thanks, Jim B.
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