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Post by jas665 on Feb 19, 2018 1:11:51 GMT -5
I've combed the premier threads and didn't find anything. It looks really really terrible. Has anyone else seen something like this? Is this a washer or a bolt on the wheel being shredded? After cleaning, all the parts look fine. This was very clearly a silver metallic liquid coming out of the wheel parts on both sides. Washers and bolts around the wheels seem to be fine. There was a little black-ish goopy build up on the scraper. It had been running about 48hrs and probably 2 batches since the last full wet wash. Usually when doing small quick experiments I'll run a couple small batches using a dry cloth to clean out in between and let the motor rest before running next batch. Total batch size was 1.3kg -- 70% nibs + sugar. I've made it many times before without a problem. Temperature refining usually around 124 but sometimes, like last night, I put the lid on overnight and it gets up to 134. After washing, I sometimes put melted cocoa butter around the parts to keep it well lubricated. This is the 220v 1.5L red chocolate refiner edition. Is there any sort of user manual that might provide basic maintenance recommendations?
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Post by Thomas on Feb 19, 2018 10:00:52 GMT -5
Did you remove the wheels when you cleaned it? If not, you should and clean it after every use as chocolate will build up on the axels and inside the wheel holes.
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Post by Chip on Mar 12, 2018 20:43:44 GMT -5
I've combed the premier threads and didn't find anything. It looks really really terrible. Has anyone else seen something like this? Is this a washer or a bolt on the wheel being shredded? After cleaning, all the parts look fine. This was very clearly a silver metallic liquid coming out of the wheel parts on both sides. Washers and bolts around the wheels seem to be fine. There was a little black-ish goopy build up on the scraper. It had been running about 48hrs and probably 2 batches since the last full wet wash. Usually when doing small quick experiments I'll run a couple small batches using a dry cloth to clean out in between and let the motor rest before running next batch. Total batch size was 1.3kg -- 70% nibs + sugar. I've made it many times before without a problem. Temperature refining usually around 124 but sometimes, like last night, I put the lid on overnight and it gets up to 134. After washing, I sometimes put melted cocoa butter around the parts to keep it well lubricated. This is the 220v 1.5L red chocolate refiner edition. Is there any sort of user manual that might provide basic maintenance recommendations? I just ran in to this last week, and then again yesterday. What is happening is that small amounts of chocolate and/or cocoa butter are getting into the wheel hub, and causing the wheel to bind up when first starting. That binding then causes the hub to grind away at the stone. The problem is basically in the type of metal used in axle of the plastic wheel mount and how it interacts with the hub of the wheel. I worked with Diamond Custom Machines with mine, for that is where I bought it, and I got the stainless steel version of the whole wheel assembly. That took care of most of it, but I also had a problem with the actual bowl losing some stone as well, so they are sending me a new bowl as well. To prevent this from happening again, when you clean the wheels, actually remove them from their spindles and use a straw/bottle brush to clean inside the hub of the wheel, and really clean and then wipe down the axle. Let it dry for 24 hours and then reassemble and you will be ready to go.
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Post by jas665 on Jun 17, 2018 13:31:14 GMT -5
Yes - same result here. A bit concerning though. I had a similar issue with 2nd DCM refiner I got. Seems like these stainless steel stone holders should be included in the original package (even if price point is a bit higher) rather than asking people to pay for it after they've experienced this bleeding substance. Not sure if it's toxic, but certainly doesn't look very safe..
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Post by Chip on Jun 19, 2018 9:51:52 GMT -5
Yes - same result here. A bit concerning though. I had a similar issue with 2nd DCM refiner I got. Seems like these stainless steel stone holders should be included in the original package (even if price point is a bit higher) rather than asking people to pay for it after they've experienced this bleeding substance. Not sure if it's toxic, but certainly doesn't look very safe.. Right now I am in experimentation with Diamond because their stainless stone holders are somehow suctioning chocolate out of the bowl, up the stem, down the outside of the stem and into the motor. What a mess. Has happened to me at least 4 times now. The first time I was able to clean it out. The second time I couldn't so they sent me a new motor housing, the third and fourth times I actually just put the motor housing under the spray in my utility sink and pressure washed the chocolate out of the housing/motor. I know you are not supposed to get a motor wet, but I was at a loss. I have been in constant contact with Bhavani from Diamond on this issue and they are working feverishly on it to solve it. My first experiment was to place aluminum tape over the hole in the stone holder and it worked. The second time it didn't. So, don't think that the stainless stone holder will solve all of your problems. It solved the substance into the chocolate problem but caused a lot of other issues. Attachments:
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Post by Ben on Jun 19, 2018 10:01:11 GMT -5
I've had this happen a few times, too, with my 1.5L premiere with the standard plastic stone holder. I read somewhere that maybe leaning a little may help, but I can't remember if you're supposed to lean it forward or backward.
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Post by Chip on Jun 19, 2018 10:12:09 GMT -5
I've had this happen a few times, too, with my 1.5L premiere with the standard plastic stone holder. I read somewhere that maybe leaning a little may help, but I can't remember if you're supposed to lean it forward or backward. Mine is the tilting version and I can definitely tell you that leaning does not help. IMHO there is a capillary action somehow happening and chocolate is actually being sucked up into the hole, up the post, then down inside the post. All the times it has happened to me I knew about it because lots of chocolate was seeping out the bottom of the unit. Not just a little, but a LOT. They have been very good to me as far as replacing nibs I lost, etc. And as I said, they are really working hard on this problem. I have no complaints at all with Diamond, they are top notch and are very responsive. I am getting frustrated however.
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Post by lilypa on Jun 19, 2018 14:12:43 GMT -5
I haven't been to the forum in a while, but noticed this thread. I too have had this problem and Bhavani has really tried to help. I like DCM a lot. In my last talk with Bhavani, the DCM folks were thinking that adding sugar too quickly may be the cause of this issue. He said that if sugar grains fall into the hole that it could create a capillary action of the chocolate at the bottom of the shaft to then travel up the shaft and into the motor. And I too have had to spend a few hours cleaning chocolate out of one of my Premier motors. I started orienting the wheel assemblies such that the assembly hole is on the far side from where I primarily interact with the chocolate in the refiner. When I add sugar now, there's less chance of it getting in the hole while I'm pouring it in. So far, so good after four batches. Have you tried that and still had the issue? I'm not totally convinced that adding sugar quickly IS the actual problem, but my suggestion may help. Knock on wood that I don't see this again.
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Post by Chip on Jun 19, 2018 15:23:06 GMT -5
I haven't been to the forum in a while, but noticed this thread. I too have had this problem and Bhavani has really tried to help. I like DCM a lot. In my last talk with Bhavani, the DCM folks were thinking that adding sugar too quickly may be the cause of this issue. He said that if sugar grains fall into the hole that it could create a capillary action of the chocolate at the bottom of the shaft to then travel up the shaft and into the motor. And I too have had to spend a few hours cleaning chocolate out of one of my Premier motors. I started orienting the wheel assemblies such that the assembly hole is on the far side from where I primarily interact with the chocolate in the refiner. When I add sugar now, there's less chance of it getting in the hole while I'm pouring it in. So far, so good after four batches. Have you tried that and still had the issue? I'm not totally convinced that adding sugar quickly IS the actual problem, but my suggestion may help. Knock on wood that I don't see this again. Hello! Yes, I have tried adding sugar in many different ways. Warmed, not warmed. I have actually put my cane sugar in my Breville food processor and powdered it before putting it in. I have put it in 1/8 cup at a time over a 4 hour period. I have put it in using a contraption I built to keep all the ingredients at least 100F. I have oriented the hole away from where I pour. I have metallic taped the hole. LOL. I have experimented in many ways, and it still happens. I think they will get to the root of it eventually. I want to save enough money for their larger melange however. The other think you need to watch out for is the belt decomposing after being exposed to chocolate. After thoroughly cleaning the first time I started noticing small, greasy black particles all over my tabletop. And I mean ALL over. Wiping them up with a paper towel was impossible for they just smeared black all over the work surface (stainless steel). I took the motor apart again and noticed the belt was disintegrating. It got much worse and Bhavani sent me two new belts. It is happening less now but not totally eliminated. I used a high pressure air blower to blow out the motor unit with the motor and "guts" exposed, but obviously did not get all of the particles out of all the tiny spaces down in the guts. Just be careful of that issue after cleaning up from the "chocolate invasion." Bhavani also sent me two new plastic stone holders, but the plastic on the axles was too long and caused the wheels to seize. I had to trim back the plastic with a roto-tool, which I did, but have not had the time to test them out yet. I have shut down for the summer for we are about to do our yearly summer stay up in Ontario, Canada for quite a while, and it's also a little to hot for me to comfortably make chocolate. I will continue the experimenting in the Fall to try to help find a solution. I have enclosed pictures of the contraption I built to keep my melange at the proper temp while adding ingredients. I use a common heat gun, some 2x3's, a Bayite Temperature Controller 1650W BTC211 Digital Outlet Thermostat, Pre-wired, 2 Stage Heating and Cooling Mode, 110V - 240V 15A with probe. I tied it to the center column using food safe elastics. It works great. Hope this helps! Attachments:
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Post by Chip on Jun 19, 2018 15:24:33 GMT -5
I haven't been to the forum in a while, but noticed this thread. I too have had this problem and Bhavani has really tried to help. I like DCM a lot. In my last talk with Bhavani, the DCM folks were thinking that adding sugar too quickly may be the cause of this issue. He said that if sugar grains fall into the hole that it could create a capillary action of the chocolate at the bottom of the shaft to then travel up the shaft and into the motor. And I too have had to spend a few hours cleaning chocolate out of one of my Premier motors. I started orienting the wheel assemblies such that the assembly hole is on the far side from where I primarily interact with the chocolate in the refiner. When I add sugar now, there's less chance of it getting in the hole while I'm pouring it in. So far, so good after four batches. Have you tried that and still had the issue? I'm not totally convinced that adding sugar quickly IS the actual problem, but my suggestion may help. Knock on wood that I don't see this again. One last picture showing how I attach the temperature probe to the center post.
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Post by lilypa on Jun 19, 2018 17:51:00 GMT -5
Ahhh I did experience the belt decomposition you mentioned. I wasn't sure why that was occurring. Chocolate does that to the belts? Wow. Either way, as a consequence I noticed that my refiners also got louder afterwards. My wife wasn't too happy with that.
As for the temp controller, that looks fun. I wonder if it would work well with a heat lamp? It would be great to have a dimmable heat lamp that's temperature controllable.
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Post by Chip on Jun 20, 2018 10:08:43 GMT -5
Ahhh I did experience the belt decomposition you mentioned. I wasn't sure why that was occurring. Chocolate does that to the belts? Wow. Either way, as a consequence I noticed that my refiners also got louder afterwards. My wife wasn't too happy with that. As for the temp controller, that looks fun. I wonder if it would work well with a heat lamp? It would be great to have a dimmable heat lamp that's temperature controllable. It should work equally as well with a heat lamp as it does with a heat gun. I wouldn't know how to program the dimmable part though!
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Post by jas665 on Jun 21, 2018 3:25:13 GMT -5
Yes, this used to happen on both my 1.5L and 2L quite often. Are you getting this capillary action even at lower volumes?? Like, 50% full?
One of the guys at Indi was saying that it probably has to do with the viscosity of the chocolate and how ingredients are added vs. time (rather than simply throwing in 10lbs of ingredients. The only real solution I found was to only fill them to 80% of stated weight capacity.
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Post by Chip on Jun 21, 2018 8:57:38 GMT -5
Yes, this used to happen on both my 1.5L and 2L quite often. Are you getting this capillary action even at lower volumes?? Like, 50% full? One of the guys at Indi was saying that it probably has to do with the viscosity of the chocolate and how ingredients are added vs. time (rather than simply throwing in 10lbs of ingredients. The only real solution I found was to only fill them to 80% of stated weight capacity. Yes. even at lower volume. I can tell you with certainty that it is NOT how ingredients are added, or in what order, or what temperature, etc. It is an inherent flaw in the system. It is not an end user created situation. It is too widespread with too many people to be an end user caused event. It is inherent to the product and needs to be addressed.
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Post by cacaosublime on Jun 22, 2018 4:26:40 GMT -5
Hi Chip,
I can imagine you are getting / or got / quite frustrated over this issue. How many batches did you run without this problem? Or did this start from batch #1? I'm currently at batch #30, and haven't experienced this problem (yet). So am interested to know when this started, so I can take it into account.
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