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Post by wahooboat on Oct 17, 2007 16:21:17 GMT -5
On a 2 pound bath of just harvested beans, how long should I let them ferment in a poly bag? I am just starting to make chocolate and have no idea. I know it takes experimentation, but how long is a good time to start with? Days? Hours? etc.
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Post by sharkman on Oct 18, 2007 1:50:28 GMT -5
Aloha! The trick to frmentation is the yeast getting enough oxygen to eat the sugar coating on th beans thereby creating heat which kills the embryo and start s the process of bringing out the chocolate flavor. When I first started ;I used a small six-pack beer cooler to help keep the heat in and help move the process along. If you get them started you should get a bread yeast smell and notice co2 coming off the mass. if it is working you should get the smell and feel heat. Keep the lid closed with just a crack to let the oxygen in. Smaller the mass the quicker the fermentation will take. You can also put a small blanket over it to hold the heat.I would estimat2-4 days if you get the rythym down. The sugar coating{parenchyma] on the beans will turn a rusty brown and look rather sticky. When done wash firmly and dry in the sun until they snap not bend like cheese. If you are fermenting beans then that means you have access to the pods. Keep trying until you see and feel it work. More beans the better; more mass more heat. aloha Sharkman
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Post by sharkman on Oct 18, 2007 1:53:43 GMT -5
Aloha again! Stir the beans everyday to add oxygen; then cover again They should get warm again. When they don't most of the sugar has bean digested. There are bacteria at work also; but that is another complicated matter,which takes place anyway. later sharkman
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Post by jamescary on Mar 16, 2008 22:09:15 GMT -5
Hi sharkman!
Are you using naturally occuring yeast/bacteria? I'm wondering how much the yeast will make a difference.. From bread making, I know sourdough in San Francisco is not reproducible outside of SF..
Thanks!
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Post by reelchemist on Mar 17, 2008 18:11:42 GMT -5
Hey Sharkman,
What about drainage from the mini cooler is it neccessary to drain away the liquid from the degrading pulp? Do you use this, as I have heard reports, in making fruit brandy or something similar?
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Post by sharkman on Mar 19, 2008 1:35:37 GMT -5
Aloha folks! Sorry about the delay in replying! The air is filled with natural yeast and it will innoculate itself. You can add yeast Iv'e heard ;but no need. In the wine business winemakers kill the wild yeast and add their own to get the flavor they want. It helps to have enough mass to generate heat to keep the fermentation cooking. Turning adds more oxygen. On the draining of the juice off the fresh beans; my wife collects it and drinks it. She loves it! If you don't take it within4-6 hours it starts to ferment. They do make a fermented beverage out of the juice in most cacao regions in the world. It is a little or a lot like fermenting apple juice. tTn freeze it and drain the un-frozen alcohol(freezes at a lower temp than water or juice)They would freeze in plastic jug and then pierce lower corner of jug to drain of higher proof alcohol. If you don't let the juice drain off the cacao beans you get a syrupy mess that ferments for ten to twelve days; instead of 5-7. I let them ferment till the CO2 is gone and there is no heat coming off the beans. I stir once more and let them sit one more day for the acetobacter to work a little. i wash mine and then dry. I would love to know if they wash them in other cacao growing areas. I sell afew raw3 ones and quite a few roasted ones at the Hilo Farmers market and they seem a liittle more presentable when washed. I guess I'm rambling; so I hope this helps. Aloha Sharkman
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Post by jamescary on Mar 19, 2008 12:55:39 GMT -5
Thanks sharkman... huge help! It's encouraging to hear you are able to naturally ferment the beans.. Would frozen stilled cocoa cider be called cocoajack? I just read that the juice can be turned into a jam, also.. That might make for an interesting peanut butter & jam sandwich..
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Post by reelchemist on Mar 19, 2008 18:49:49 GMT -5
Thanks Sharkman, just to follow up do you put holes in the bottom of your beer cooler to let the beans drain as they ferment or do you just drain it against the lid or something like that? I have just seen those big ferment boxes and the fermenting juice seems to drain out between the slats of the wooden boxes.
With draining the fresh juice, do you get rid of some of the juice before you ferment the beans, or is that the stuff that forms in the first few hours when you put fresh beans in the cooler to ferment?
Also Mr Scary, an answer to your desire to ferment, perhaps you don't need the pods themselves but vacuum sealed fresh beans (with the pulp on) frozen and shipped to you. Then you could thaw out and ferment. We find that freezing grape juice for 6 months and then thawing and making wine changes very little the resultant wine. The only concern that I would have is that freezing the bean may destroy its structure.....like freezing lettuce as all the cells will lyse, but you never know. Perhaps Sharkman has tried this?
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Post by jamescary on Mar 20, 2008 0:22:20 GMT -5
Good idea, reelchemist.. I know that durian, a fruit whose flesh is high in pulp and surrounds several large seeds, is often frozen in order to be shipped around the world..
It would be a great experiment..
One thing, though, that I've read is that freezing fruits tends to kill the seed.. which could be problematic since it sounds like the seed may need to be alive before fermentation.. Since cacao grows in tropical regions, it may not have built up any resilience to handle strong extremes..
If I get some fruit, I will certainly give it a try.. And I'd be interested and grateful to hear if anyone else has had any luck along these lines..
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Post by cacaufarmer on Mar 20, 2008 16:51:13 GMT -5
In our cacau farms, fermentation requires 6-7 days. The liquid is drained when the cacao is broken open and more drainage occurs during transportation. It is placed in the fermentation boxes and covered with burlap sheets to retain the heat. additional drainage occurs while in the fermentation boxes. The mass is turned over several times during the process but with small quantities, I doubt it will be necessary. Our box capacities are approx 1000kg. when completely fermented, the bean will be a dark violet in color, throughout the bean. Lack of fermentation causes degradation of the flavor and all cacau fino requires the 1 week process. Beans are not washed after fermentation. They are placed on wooden floored drying houses for sun drying. The humidity levels within a properly dried bean are 7%-9%. During the drying process, normally 4-7 days, the beans are scooped with wooden shovels to mix them and expose all sides to the sun. Sorry we are not able to post photos as it would be interesting for all to see the commercial process. By the way, no addatives are required to initiate fermentation.
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Post by reelchemist on Mar 20, 2008 18:35:28 GMT -5
Yeah I didn't think of that James, I have read that the bean must germinate briefly before it is killed off for proper flavour developement. Freezing would undoubtedly kill the seed, perhaps this is the experiment that was used to determine that germination was neccessary.
Thanks for all the other info, I am hopefull that one day I might be able to give fermentation a try myself.
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Post by sharkman on Mar 21, 2008 3:06:54 GMT -5
Aloha and thanks cacua farmer for the info on how the big growers do it. I've been washing before drying; so I may do thios next batch without washing. reel chemist, drainn the beans overnight in a large collander or 1/8 "-1/4" mesh screen. let the yeast settle on them and drain good before stacking in a pile to create fermentation. put the fermenting container opn top of the fridge as it helps warm the container. Like cacuafarmer says; a small stirr is probably all you need to keep working. aloha sharkman
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Post by jamescary on Mar 23, 2008 1:21:41 GMT -5
Once the fermentation is complete, how do you dry the beans?
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Post by jamescary on Mar 27, 2008 3:07:26 GMT -5
OK, I got some fresh cacao and am giving it a ferment now! I think it's going to be a total billion to one shot, since I don't have a whole lot of beans.. Will post more details later... Here's some pics: www.flickr.com/photos/james_cary/sets/72157604265758882/The cacao smells completely different than I expected! Kind of a sweet flower with a hint of watermelon smell.
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Post by seneca on Mar 27, 2008 16:59:05 GMT -5
Sun drying is the way to go. Opinions differ on whether to expose the cacao to full sun or to shade, but there is definite agreement that mechanical drying will produce a substandard result.
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