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Post by reelchemist on Jul 26, 2009 23:21:58 GMT -5
Thanks for the detail Jo,
At the stage I am at I remove by hand the very small beans and crap, then crush and sieve / grade the nib / shell mix through 3 different sieves. One removes whole beans that don't get crushed, the next splits nibs into two sizes and the final removes the dust and small germinated bit. This is reasonably time consuming and can see this as a problem as I want to move into larger quantities. I have plans to build the sieves as stackable boxes and put them in another bigger container to shake and do the sieving all at once - possibly automate this somehow.
As for Brad's winnower I gathered the same as you from the description he posted, which is why I was thinking of building one as it is just an extension of what I have learnt from building the PVC tube one.
As far as I know Tava are about to put there new machinery to the test. Hopefully it all works well. Just have to wait and see.
Thanks again
Tom
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Post by Alchemist on Jul 27, 2009 19:49:19 GMT -5
Very good posts about the importance of proper cracking. The winnowing, regardless of the winnower, can only be as good as the cracker. As a reminder, keep in mind the Crankandstein is a 'cheap' cracker. It was developed when nothing else was out there. I have started talking with Crankandstein about a new version with adjustable gaps. We'll see if it makes for a more versatile machine and more consistent cracking.
And also, for those that don't do it, or have not tried it, the Champion, minus the screen, makes a pretty good cracker also. Smaller pieces, less flats and faster. The one down side is that it creates more dust, but this is not nearly as bad as it seems. From a personal analysis and interpretation of the dust, I found the majority to be husk dust, not nib dust. And the dust winnows out great.
Keep at it folks. Great input and a great thread.
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Post by Brad on Jul 28, 2009 1:31:57 GMT -5
I agree with John about the importance of even cracking. If your cracker is working well, you will not need shaker screens, or ANY moving parts, because your shell size and nib size will for the most part be consistent. Yes, the CPL cracker does a good job (the fanner is a P.O.S).
My winnower currently processes about 100lbs per hour to with an average of 82% nibs to 18% shell ratio.
I can most likely make the processing more efficient by putting a hopper under the cracker, and using a bucket loading system to carry the nibs/shell and dump them in the fanner. By automating this process, I would save considerable manpower, get consistent throughput, and most likely increase the capacity of the system to 130lbs per hour of nibs.
The best part, is that with the dust collection system and a heppa filter, we crack and winnow in a very tight space, and get virtually NO dust on anything.
Further to that, the system is completely scaleable (can easily be ramped up to process 300-400lbs per hour), cheap to build, and has no moving parts inside to break or wear down. It's simply a box with fans mounted on the outside, and slopes inside that guide nibs and shell into airflow, which is attached to a vacuum that collects the dust and items that blow out.
The whole thing can be built for under $600.
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Post by holycacao on Jul 28, 2009 7:07:43 GMT -5
John, I just want to let you know that the variable gap crankenstein that I bought does not really add any better cracking. I believe that it is because the beans depending on size can enter the roller gap sideways. I think propelling the beans against plate promotes a better break.
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Post by Alchemist on Jul 28, 2009 7:24:44 GMT -5
holycacao, Was the variable gap C&S one special made for you for cocoa or did you get one of his variable gap grain mills?
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Post by holycacao on Jul 28, 2009 16:30:13 GMT -5
Dan told me it was for cocoa- but it was two rollers instead of three. The variable gap was between the two rollers. It took a very long time to crack and was not so effective. Like I said, I experiment hooking it up to a fast motor and having the rollers throw the beans against a steel plate. If the rollers had a little give that would allow it to pull the beans in and not break them as much it might have worked. After a lot of trial and error, we screened out the larger fragments and saved them on the side until we had enough to fill the melanguer and then cracked them all on a smaller grind and winnowed separately. I think Beckett and minifie have diagrams which explain the cracker used in the industry.
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Post by Alchemist on Jul 29, 2009 7:03:54 GMT -5
Well, the three roller design was a trade off 5 years ago when nothing existed. I never accepted a 2 roller design and what I am discussing currently would be 3 roller, and 4 or even 5 bears looking at if it would radically improve the cracker. I have a Beckett book. Time to pull it out.
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Post by gordonschocolate on Aug 11, 2009 13:18:56 GMT -5
I checked the up to $500 range box. I would possibly be willing to pay slightly more if the winnower worked very effectively and efficiently One of the slowest parts of my chocolate production is winnowing. But I need to be able to roast in larger quantities too.
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Post by chocolatedr on Aug 11, 2009 20:01:21 GMT -5
To be honest, I forget if I posted $250-$500 or $750 - $1,000. It's probably in between the two. FYI-John you missed the range of $500-$750, but that's not why I am posting. My real interest would be in one with a container and hopper that holds 50lbs-100 lbs. Any chance one at that scale can be built?
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Post by Alchemist on Aug 12, 2009 8:35:58 GMT -5
Ha, good point - I did miss that range and you are the first to point it out.
Technically, one that holds 50-100 lbs is not that difficult. The internal mechanisms would be the same. It would be more expensive due to materials, both quantity and quality (heavier for the extra weight) but in my mind's eye, I see it modular enough to accept different holding and collection vessels.
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Post by chocolatedr on Aug 18, 2009 10:18:01 GMT -5
OK, great John. I am on your beta list for the winnower and would be interested in the larger size container and hopper (100 lbs) if possible.
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Post by chocokoko on Aug 18, 2009 14:51:04 GMT -5
Also what you can do John, is make a good detailed blueprint to sell. So us "handymen" can build it. Also I live in Canada, so shipping one of those will be very expensive. Just a thought.
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Post by kellymon on Aug 24, 2009 18:00:46 GMT -5
Well, I fit the criteria of weekend maker, < 10 lbs. Usually 5. So I checked the $250-500 box, as anything more than that does not have a realistic payback for me. However, I'm a do-it-yourselfer, so I built my own using 3" pvc and a DeWalt 5 gallon shop vac. It really does the trick and is easy to use..... it even cleans and stores the husks. It can also run from it's own battery so I can charge it from my 50w solar panel and I'm good to go anywhere outside. It is only used for winnowing. I also screen my nibs after cracking to catch those big husks and uncracked (flat) beans.
John, I can appreciate the difficulties of making a self feeding, multi pass, clean winnowing machine. Making one for less than $500 and still have a decent profit....... that's going to have to be a pretty clever design......
BTW, your poll ask "How much would you pay?" but you also ask "What's a good winnower worth?" Two different questions in my mind. Although I would only pay less than $500 due to my needs, I would estimate a good winnower to be worth $1500+
Also, for a small winnower with a .5-1.5 lb/min I would not need for it to be walk away. I would have no problem tending the feed for 5-10 minutes.
Are you thinking continuous feed or pocket feed? Continuous is nice because you can slowly meter product into the airstream, but pocket feed allows you to have a seal on the input side to prevent that really fine dust and chaff from blowing back....
robert
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Post by David on Sept 23, 2009 10:40:04 GMT -5
consider this: instead of cracking the beans as i used to with two rollers i pass them thru a machine that pushes whole roasted and cleaned beans thru a screen with around 3/8" spacing (it is called a granulator and is pretty common in pharmaceutical) then i pass them thru a winnower of a similar design to the cps but with a feed screw and a hopper. Because there is not a signifigant particle size range to the husk, the same airflow takes out most of the shell. i pass it twice if i need to, but usually one will suffice i've been thru all the winnower incarnations, the home depot pvc etc and this works great. Throughput of around 40kg per hour . Good enough until my Carle and Montenari RCM7 is installed!
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Post by reelchemist on Sept 23, 2009 22:47:55 GMT -5
That is a great idea to use an auger to feed the winnower!!!
What sort of granulator do you use, what sort of particle size do you get out? Very interesting.
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