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Post by thang on Jun 20, 2018 2:45:26 GMT -5
Hi, please help me with this problem.
My recipe: 70% dark chocolate (60% nibs, 10% cb, 30% sugar). So I see that %cb is at least 40% which is above the figure suggested (at least 32%). Refined in Premiers in 40hrs. Room temp is 19C by air conditioner, humid is unknown. Using bowl tempering method with double boiler at 70C and ice water tray at 7C.
Intended tempering curve is 48C to 26.7C (line 1) then 26.7C to 31C (line 2). But in reality, I cant get the chocolate lower than 28C since it was so thick and the chocolate in the side of the bowl became solid quickly and create a wall, preventing the mass in the center of the bowl to exchange heat to the cold water outside. I tried stirring gently all the time as much as i could, of course. Moreover, on the way from 31C down to 28C (line 2), the viscosity of it is like peanut butter's, or even higher, making stirring job really a nightmare.
After that, from 28C (which should be 26.7C in theory, but i gave up because it is harden already) I brought it up to 31C but the mass till sooooo thick at this point. There's nothing I can do with molding, just pour that mess to the inox tray, cant even scoop by ladle. Solid mixing with thick liquid, looking like a mess. It cant spread out evenly.
And the result come as predicted. Bloom happened in all, on the surface and even inside the solid body.
That was my situation. How can the chocolate so thick while the %cb is that high (40%). And how can I fix this problem. Any help is greatly appreciated and sorry for the long post because I want to provide details for easy inspection. Thanks in advance.
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Post by Ben on Jun 20, 2018 8:50:47 GMT -5
I wouldn't worry overly about hitting the exact temperature at the low end. If it's too thick to stir, it's already too cold. The process isn't only about hitting specific temperatures, so much as causing crystallization in the chocolate. If it starts to thicken noticeably at the low temp, it's time to start warming it back up.
On the final temp, 31C (87.8F) is the lowest temp you want. I'd suggest going up to 33C (91.4F). That should make it a lot easier to work with. If it's still too thick, take it a little warmer still, or hold it at 33C for a while. This will allow more of the crystals to melt, which will allow the chocolate to flow better.
Keep in mind that tempering is not a set process--as in 'I've hit the temps and now my chocolate is tempered'. The cocoa butter in the chocolate is always either melting or crystallizing, but it doesn't all happen at exactly the moment you hit a specific temperature. For example, if your chocolate is super thick/crystallized, you could take it up to 34C (or even a little more) to melt off some of that crystallization for a short period to get it back into a workable state. Once it's flowing again, cool it back down to 33C and you should be good to go.
Once you do this a few times, you'll start to get an idea of how the chocolate will look and feel at different stages of the tempering process.
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Post by thang on Jun 20, 2018 20:46:53 GMT -5
Hi Ben,
Thank you for your time replying my two post at once. After reading your words I think there is a lot of method variation I have to try. Allow me for more curious. Is the percentage of cb (if not the only index) determines the viscosity of the chocolate? If so, why does the milk choc with 42% cb (recipe 25% for each of nibs, cb, sugar and milk) looks and feels so much less viscous than the dark choc (recipe 60% nibs, 10% cb and 30% sugar) with 42% cb? Should I rise the percentage of cb in the dark choc recipe higher for less viscous? (Though I have never heard anyone rose %cb that high) These are my last two batch with the same bean and I dont have any problem stirring the milk choc while it is a nightmare stirring dark choc and though they are both not clean of bloom, which I know that I'll have a lot of work to do.
Thank you and have a good day.
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Post by Ben on Jun 21, 2018 9:05:39 GMT -5
Are you referring to how thick the chocolate is during the tempering process? If so, I would focus on learning that process instead of adjusting your recipes. I think either of those recipes should be entirely workable, viscosity-wise.
On a side note, the percentage of cocoa butter is not the only factor affecting viscosity. Particle size distribution and amount of moisture in the chocolate are also factors, as are other factors like whether lecithin is used.
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Post by thang on Jun 21, 2018 20:52:46 GMT -5
Are you referring to how thick the chocolate is during the tempering process? If so, I would focus on learning that process instead of adjusting your recipes. I think either of those recipes should be entirely workable, viscosity-wise. On a side note, the percentage of cocoa butter is not the only factor affecting viscosity. Particle size distribution and amount of moisture in the chocolate are also factors, as are other factors like whether lecithin is used. Hi Ben, Again thank you for replying. Regarding tempering skill, I definitely think I must learn more to deeply understand and master it. And I also believe both recipes could be workable with the adjusted curve as your suggestion. However, in my previous question, I mention about the viscosity of two recipe at the end of the refining process. They have the same humid condition (so I assume the same amount of moisture), same refining time 36hrs or even a few more hours for dark choc (so could I assume the same particle?), no lecithin is being used at all. Any thing should we take in consideration? My question is still: Could the milk choc and dark choc with 'the same %cb and almost other conditions' have different viscosity? If so, what is the element that affect them? PS: If any other of you have idea, please comment. It might help. Thanks.
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Post by thang on Jun 22, 2018 2:33:12 GMT -5
Hi Ben, I luckily found this precious thread of the conversation between sugaralchemy and Brad chocolatetalk.proboards.com/thread/304/65-cuyagua which adding more proof to your point about the cooling phase. There is really not ideal or rigid temp to follow when tempering. One have to try and adjust to see what temp is suit. Whatever temp suggested is just for reference, for the clear concept from the first try. Though it would very helpful and so close to the personal's ideal figure. Am I right? Still need answer for the question about the viscosity in previous post. Thanks.
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Post by thang on Jul 12, 2018 4:18:18 GMT -5
Hi Ben,
I would like to give a feedback. Followed your guide, I finally succeed tempering my chocolate. I would like to thank you very much for your key instructions (and also thanks Brad very much for a lot of your posts regarding the tempering method). I really appreciate that.
----------------------------------------- My two last batch are 70% and have a beautiful shiny finish without any bloom. The tempering profile is 45C - 28C - 31C(or 32C) For anyone still in trouble, my experience is: - There is no precise temperature when tempering. The numbers discussed are mostly mean to give you a basic understand of the way to do. The most precise tool is look and feel. I was really panic when trying to get my choc down to 26.7C (as read in some instruction) but it almost solid at 27C, then I thought that attempt is doomed. Turned out I dont need to reach that low, just feel a bit thicker flowing while around 28-29C is enough. Of course, again, it is not a rigid rule, just follow your feeling, trial and error. Then turn it up to 30 or 31 or 32C as your trial. - When molding, strictly follow this loop: "stir well, pour once, swipe once if needed" for every mold you fill. The first mold and the 20th, for example, is done the same. - Let the mold set at the room temp (16-18C) for 10-20 mins - Put the mold in the fridge 10C for 20 mins. - Take it out and enjoy the look, haha.
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Post by Ben on Jul 12, 2018 8:52:24 GMT -5
I'm glad to hear it helped!
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