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Post by Chip on Jun 22, 2018 8:47:05 GMT -5
Hi Chip, I can imagine you are getting / or got / quite frustrated over this issue. How many batches did you run without this problem? Or did this start from batch #1? I'm currently at batch #30, and haven't experienced this problem (yet). So am interested to know when this started, so I can take it into account. Yes, I am getting very frustrated. It just happened to me again last night. I sent pictures and email to Bhavani but have yet to hear back. I ran probably 3 batches for this problem arouse. I first had the metallic substance problem with the plastic stone holders. Kept happening so they swapped my stationary melange for a tilting melange. It started on batch 3. So far I have lost probably 10 batches (Bhavani replaced 12 lbs of nibs for me.) I've been through 2 motor units because the chocolate was so invasive that it just seized up everything. I now have a motor unit that when it happens I stick it under the spray faucet and turn on the hot water and rinse the entire thing out, electrical components and all. But the belts keep disintegrating, the chocolate keeps invading, and I keep trying different things to stop it. I've taped the holes, powdered the sugar in my food processor, added the sugar over an 8 hour period, warmed all ingredients. I do not use nibs, I process the nibs in cocoa liquor, so that is another thing that makes it easier on the melange. I've tried the plastic holders, the stainless holders, switching the side of the hole, using the heat gun/automatic temperature control; warming all the ingredients; tilting the melange a bit. I've made smaller batches, larger batches and medium batches. I've tried 3 different bowls, 5 different stone holders, 5 sets of stones, 2 motor mounts. So yes, I get you can say I'm frustrated.
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Post by lilypa on Jun 22, 2018 18:00:55 GMT -5
Wait a second. Chip, you're having this problem with the plastic wheel assemblies as well as the stainless wheel assemblies? I thought you originally mentioned you only had this problem with the stainless assemblies, which is the only time I ever had the problem. I've never had this problem with the plastic wheel assemblies. And, when I did have it with the stainless assemblies, it was infrequent.
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Post by Chip on Jun 22, 2018 21:20:42 GMT -5
Wait a second. Chip, you're having this problem with the plastic wheel assemblies as well as the stainless wheel assemblies? I thought you originally mentioned you only had this problem with the stainless assemblies, which is the only time I ever had the problem. I've never had this problem with the plastic wheel assemblies. And, when I did have it with the stainless assemblies, it was infrequent. I have several issues. With the SS assemblies I have the chocolate invasion problem. Frequently. Like every 3rd batch. With the plastic assemblies I’ve had the metallic invasion problem. A grayish, oily metallic substance that corrupts the batch. I’ve also had wheels freezing up and belts disintegrating. I still am trying to stand with theses melanges however.
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Post by lilypa on Jun 23, 2018 10:26:22 GMT -5
A friend and I suspect that the metallic issue with the plastic assemblies could be relieved in two ways: 1) keep the chocolate level in the bowl below that crossbar and 2) Premier could try integrating the polished stainless rods that hold the wheels they use with their stainless assemblies into the plastic assemblies. Those wheel rods in the plastic assemblies aren't polished so we suspect that the friction between the wheels and those rods mixed with some cocoa butter getting in there are creating the metallic goo. Currently, in your control, you could just make smaller batches to keep it below that horizontal plane. Try < 2 kg per batch in the tilting units.
As for the stainless assemblies and the piping issue, that seems to be a greater problem considering it can get into the motors and cause belt deterioration. I'm going to avoid using the stainless assemblies for now because I can at least control the metallic goo issue. Hopefully, Premier figures out the piping issue with the stainless assemblies and/or they try using polished stainless wheel rods with their plastic assemblies.
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Post by jas665 on Jul 21, 2018 3:24:14 GMT -5
Ohhh boy. Feeling your pain today Chip. Orders backed up, loaded 1.5L with 7lbs chocolate, ingredient additions spread over 24hr period. Belt, gears, bearing, MOTOR all covered in chocolate. Straight through motor box to the ground. BRUTAL!
Have you tried closing up the hole in the stone holder? Can't think of what material would work for that.. Otherwise may cut up a rag to wrap around the metal screw post or stuffing some cotton balls down there to stop chocolate from flowing down into the bowl post...
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Post by Chip on Jul 21, 2018 7:49:40 GMT -5
Ohhh boy. Feeling your pain today Chip. Orders backed up, loaded 1.5L with 7lbs chocolate, ingredient additions spread over 24hr period. Belt, gears, bearing, MOTOR all covered in chocolate. Straight through motor box to the ground. BRUTAL!
Have you tried closing up the hole in the stone holder? Can't think of what material would work for that.. Otherwise may cut up a rag to wrap around the metal screw post or stuffing some cotton balls down there to stop chocolate from flowing down into the bowl post...
I covered the hole with aluminum tape. It helped somewhat. But it still happened.
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fred
Novice
Posts: 144
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Post by fred on Aug 27, 2018 17:30:22 GMT -5
Is this an issue for the Premier Chocolate Refiner Melanger?
I'm thinking of buying one and of course it always better to know as much as possible about the types of issues that are likely to come up when I start making chocolate.
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Post by Chip on Aug 27, 2018 18:32:26 GMT -5
Is this an issue for the Premier Chocolate Refiner Melanger? I'm thinking of buying one and of course it always better to know as much as possible about the types of issues that are likely to come up when I start making chocolate. Yes, and no. It was a big issue with it until they fixed it with all the new refiners. I experienced it, yes. But they updated their design of the stone holders, both plastic an stainless, and there are no more issues with the metallic corruption in the batches.
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fred
Novice
Posts: 144
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Post by fred on Aug 27, 2018 20:57:52 GMT -5
Chip - thank you for the clarification. Great to know the manufacturer has attempted to address this issue in the latest version of the Melanger.
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cxa6
Neophyte
Posts: 4
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Post by cxa6 on Sept 25, 2018 9:06:03 GMT -5
I've been dealing with this issue ever since I got my machine. It really drives me nuts, I haven't used my machine for a while because of this. It wasn't always noticeable but I started notice it only later when processing larger quantities. Mine's not as severe as the one in the picture of this thread but I assume its because I haven't ran it for long enough. I suspect as someone else has mentioned earlier that it happens due to cocoa particles entering the small gap between the wheels and the steel rods while the machine is running. I tried running small quantities (like 300g total) and no substance formed up, simply because the volume was low enough to not be able to reach that gap.
I'm trying to solve this issue at the moment, I've seen people mention that the new steel assembly solves it. The new stone holder however comes with two additional plastic spacers and silicone (or plastic) washers as can be seen in this video:
I highly believe that these actually solve the issue, the spacers and the extra washers leave almost no gap, they seal it almost completely so no particles leak into the wheel assembly. In addition to that the extra scraper probably also helps a little bit by getting the chocolate mixture away from that area.
I took some measurements on my tilting chocolate refiner. That gap I mentioned seems to be about 2.5~3mm thick. Also the inner diameter (where the rods are placed inside) is 8mm and the outer diameter (where the washers sits) is about 17mm.
So I was thinking maybe to get about four 17x8x1mm (OD x ID x Thickness) or get two 17x8x1mm and two 17x8x2mm washers, and see if it helps. Does this make sense?
I'm not sure wether I should get plastic or silicone washers for this, would silicone wear off by the time? Also none of these are tagged as 'food safe', does it even matter?
Hope to spread some insight and to solve this issue, because this is very frustrating. I can't believe they didn't see this coming when they manufactured this machine.
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Post by Chip on Sept 25, 2018 11:02:33 GMT -5
I don't know what gaps you mean when referring to the stone holders. Could you take a picture as to better explain? Also, you mention an extra scraper? My holders always had two.
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cxa6
Neophyte
Posts: 4
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Post by cxa6 on Sept 25, 2018 14:28:20 GMT -5
I don't know what gaps you mean when referring to the stone holders. Could you take a picture as to better explain? Also, you mention an extra scraper? My holders always had two. I may have used the wrong term, I was referring to the tiny space that's left on the wheel axle, as can be seen in the picture: drive.google.com/open?id=1SBevQ9rzNXyfByH2Gx7TKeHwYEMpyHinThis tiny space is 3mm long which causes the wheels to be loose between and causes cocoa particles get inside the axles. As for the dimensions: drive.google.com/open?id=1Fsxs96JujWQQGwVwKpCHGkUj1LE_KhpqThe purple line is the inner diameter which is 8mm The red line is the outer diameter which is 17mm Oh and as for the extra scraper, my wheel holder only has one scraper I assume the newer models of this holder comes with an additional one EDIT - first picture doesn't seem to show up, I provided a link
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Post by Chip on Sept 25, 2018 14:54:24 GMT -5
Aha! Yes, I now know what you mean. I don't think that is where the chocolate is invading from. I think it is being drawn into the center cone by a capillary effect. The new stainless stone holders have a different shape on the bottom, a smaller area so to speak, and so far so good. My new plastic stone holders they sent me do have one scraper as you show but also a downward pointing scraper that is built in to the actual middle section of the stone holder. I'll try to get a picture later tonight. If you do find a source for washers, let me know. I would be interested in getting some as well.
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cxa6
Neophyte
Posts: 4
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Post by cxa6 on Sept 25, 2018 16:43:23 GMT -5
Aha! Yes, I now know what you mean. I don't think that is where the chocolate is invading from. I think it is being drawn into the center cone by a capillary effect. The new stainless stone holders have a different shape on the bottom, a smaller area so to speak, and so far so good. My new plastic stone holders they sent me do have one scraper as you show but also a downward pointing scraper that is built in to the actual middle section of the stone holder. I'll try to get a picture later tonight. If you do find a source for washers, let me know. I would be interested in getting some as well. I'm actually pretty sure that it invades from that space I mentioned earlier, this is also another area where some of this substance forms up. Anyways, I found some washers on eBay that are almost the same size (15mm OD instead of 17mm, I think it should be fine). 1mm thick & 2mm thick 5 pieces pack. Silicone is a great sealant, I wanna get my hands on these and see if it solves the issue. My only concerns are wether it can cause friction and wear off easily and wether it needs a 'food safe' approval (although I'm pretty sure its not necessary) Anyways are these the sizes you are looking for? There are also O-Rings but they are much thinner. I think I've seen the updated stone holder you mentioned earlier on Diamond's website, though importing it to my country is pretty pricey so I think I'll first see if this can be solved with the washers, hopefully it does.
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Post by Chip on Sept 26, 2018 9:35:28 GMT -5
CXA6, Here is the picture of the new plastic stone holder I received.
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