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Post by Ben on Aug 27, 2013 7:21:09 GMT -5
Hello,
I've been asked about this a few times recently, so I figured I'd post it here:
Yep, you can temper without seed in the x3210. You just have to take it to a cooler temp and hold it for a bit to allow the crystals to start forming. Once you do it once, you can save a couple bars to be seed in the next batch which really speeds things up. I only temper without seed when doing small test batches of new beans. Mainly, this is because it uses room air to cool the chocolate, so cooling a full batch to the lower temps needed would take forever.
1) To do it, I pick temper mode 2 and have it drop the temp down to 83 before bringing it back up to my working temp. 2) I generally wait 10 minutes or so after the machine thinks it's done before testing. If the test is ok, I'll start molding.
Hope this helps!
-Ben
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Post by lilypa on Aug 30, 2013 17:30:18 GMT -5
Thanks Ben! I've been wondering about this for a while. How much chocolate do you consider makes up a small test batch in your x3210? 3 lbs? (Minimum according to Chocovision) 4 lbs? Just curious.
Dave
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Post by Ben on Aug 30, 2013 19:54:33 GMT -5
I did about a pound and a half the other day. I didn't realize/remember that they said the minimum was 3lbs. Worked fine, though.
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Post by gretencord on Mar 12, 2014 12:51:53 GMT -5
Ben, do you recall the steps you take using the x3210 without seed? Here's the process I have been following but seems like it could be more efficient:
1) Start machine, select "dark chocolate" mode 2) Select Temper 2 when melted. Set the temperature lower using the temp down button. 3) At 90*F the "seed out" alarm goes off. I press it (to cease the annoying sound) and the temperature continues to drop even past my manual setting. Nothing else I press will stop the process except... 4) Press the reset button. From here it's been trial and error but eventually I get it to to cooperate and bring the chocolate back up to working temperature.
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Post by lilypa on Mar 12, 2014 21:29:26 GMT -5
Hey Gretencord,
I've now successfully tempered several times without seed in my x3210 like Ben previously mentioned and as you described with one exception. I don't change the lower temperature set point at all from the default. Ben, have you had success without changing the default mode 2, dark chocolate settings without added seed? Or...have you noticed that lowering the temperature set point by 1-2 F helps the tempering-without-seed process better?
Cheers, Dave
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Post by Ben on Mar 13, 2014 7:24:52 GMT -5
Dave: I've never tried it without setting the low temperature lower than the standard temper mode 2 default. I'd imagine it would work fine, but may take longer to get in temper.
Gretencord: so you set the low temp down and then it takes the chocolate lower than that? Have you just let it go without hitting reset? Does it ever start to rewarm it?
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Post by lilypa on Mar 13, 2014 15:49:07 GMT -5
Hey Ben,
Just to clarify and to restate what I think you said: You've always set the low temperature setting lower than the standard temper mode 2 default? If so, what temperature do you set the lower setting to?
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Post by Ben on Mar 14, 2014 14:05:30 GMT -5
Yep, that's right. I usually set it to 83.
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Post by gretencord on Mar 14, 2014 14:07:37 GMT -5
I have set it as low as 84*F and watched it drop to 83 before hitting reset. Does it begin warming up for you when it hits the new low temp? My thinking was that the seed out alarm would adjust to the new temp but that is not the case.
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Post by Ben on Mar 14, 2014 21:24:32 GMT -5
For me, it does begin warming up once it hits the low temp that I've set. The seed out alarm still goes off at the normal temperature (90, I think).
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Post by lilypa on Mar 15, 2014 17:09:27 GMT -5
Dave: I've never tried it without setting the low temperature lower than the standard temper mode 2 default. I'd imagine it would work fine, but may take longer to get in temper. Ben, could you explain to me why NOT setting the low temperature lower than the standard temper mode 2 default may take the chocolate longer to temper? Wouldn't it take the tempering machine longer to drop to 83F instead of to the default 85.2 F? I don't understand. Dave
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Post by Ben on Mar 17, 2014 7:25:45 GMT -5
Yes, it will take longer to get down to 83 than it will to 85.2, but more crystals are going to form at the lower temperature. Some crystals will form at 85.2, but more will form at 83. By taking it lower, you're giving the crystals more of a jump start. If you only take it to 85.2, you probably will need to wait longer at the end for it to get fully in temper.
Temper mode 2 is designed for tempering with less-than-perfect seed--not for no seed at all. Most or all of the no-seed tempering methods that I know of--including my savage bros machine, turbo tempering in the freezer, etc.--have the low temp go down to the lower 80s.
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Post by lilypa on Mar 18, 2014 23:22:19 GMT -5
Thanks Ben. I haven't looked at the tempering temperature curve literature in awhile. I guess I should reacquaint myself with that again. Great response. That makes complete sense.
Dave
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Post by lyndon on Jul 24, 2015 4:25:17 GMT -5
I generally temper without seed in my Chocovision V, but I was wondering, if once it's tempered, if I only moved 50% of the bowls contents into moulds, and then refilled with untempered chocolate (probably around 45C) without changing the settings, would I end up with tempered chocolate again in say 20 (or whatever) minutes? I'm just trying to work out if I should upgrade to a bigger machine or work out a way to more efficiently use my current machine, which only takes 4kg, where as I need to go through about 10kg a day sometimes, and it's time consuming to keep running through the cycle 3 times.
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Post by Ben on Jul 24, 2015 7:21:18 GMT -5
I haven't tried this, but my guess would be that if you added 50% chocolate at 45C (113F), you'd take the existing chocolate out of temper and would have to start over. If you could bring your untempered chocolate down to 33.5-35C (93-95F) it would probably all be tempered and read to start molding again in just a couple minutes.
That being said, a larger machine would make the process much easier.
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